11 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Nope.

 

ahh. lets hope someone makes a nice airbus for ms2020.  

1 hour ago, GGLurch said:

Hi, I am not posting often here but follow the community here a lot of years now...

After following the MSFS 2020 launch here in the forums, your comment is the one that is to the point. This is excactly my expression too. Basically, that is alright with me if 3rd party developers bringing the sim to a level I was expecting in the first place when MSFS 2020 was annouced. But the problem with that is - this sim will require access to the MS Bing Maps database constantly. So if I buy MSFS2020 - I never have to pay again to actually stream a lot of data for every flight over a lot of years to come? (hopefully) And looking at the information about the actual data traffic - thats is a lot of data... for every, single user.

E.g. PMDG launched the 737 in 2011 - that's 5 years after FSX came out. I feel, that was in general the time the high-level sim software for FSX started to really take off. (I know, the MD11 was really nice too - but the 737 was/is truly a masterpiece). That is a long time if this will be similar with MSFS2020 since (in my understanding) the new sim has to be keept actively alive by MS.

Furthermore, I am concernered about the actual base flight modeling provided with the sim e.g. atmospheric physics, aerodynamic modeling, and so on. Sure MSFS2020 is advertised with an "aerodymic model with over 1000 control surfaces" - but yet, there does not seem to be a single default plane showing off the full potential of the sim. (don't get me wrong - I have no problems with simplified systems and planes in general, but a single fully modelled plane with complete systems and complete aerodynamics would have been nice at launch) There are no gliders to show off some atmospheric physics like thermals, there are helicopters,.... I've seen a video showing off the icing on a plane - but I could not actually figure out if there is actual physics involved with added drag and decreasing lift or if the sim simply adds an icing texture when the conditions are right (can you actually crash with excessive icing?). When looking at videos showing of tubulences - it looks like the plane is shaken around the CG with the nose wobbeling up/down, not like actual up-/downdrafts. (this is just my observation, I might be wrong here). So, basically - I am very unsure about the quality of the base simulator - and through all  the hype and hundreds of videos showing off the visuals, it is difficult for me to find out more about this.

Because the SDK for developers is not actually finished yet (as I understand) - nobody knows the actual sim capabilities (and sim possibilities) a lot of people are talking about when talking about future prospects. Sure, the visuals are amazing - but honestly - it is 2020 - I was kind of expecting that (however, kudos to Asobo for the engine behind that). But right now - except for the visuals, are there actually any other confirmed improvements over FSX? From the XBox MSFS2020 page, it features Higly Detailed Aircraft (which does not seem to be the case at least system depth and flight model wise, when reading the comments here in the forum...), New Day & Night engine (we had that in FSX right?), Dynamic Weather (also in FSX - not very good but availalbe), Aerodynamic Modeling (I yet have to see that as decribed above). TrackIR as "one of the most requested features" was also working in FSX. So that leaves the Detailed Landscapes and the Living World...which is totally relying on MS providing the data for free. And also, and I just want to point that out - nowhere on the MFSF2020 homepage it is stated that 3rd party addons and modding is supported. At least there is talk about the SDK from 3rd party developers - and that is at least a good sign.

Right now - and that is my personal opinion - MSFS2020 looks more like a tech-demo than the simulator I was hoping for....I hope this will turn out fine and then I will also buy the new simulator and if that takes years - fine by me. But I would prefer that happening rather sooner than later.

I also do not know how 3rd party software will be distributet for MSFS 2020. Will there be an in-game store for it? Or will MSFS2020 accept an external 3rd party distribution?

Nico

 

Okay, there are a lot of comments and questions that I'm not at liberty to discuss, but I can speak about a few of them.

1. Third party content can be sold / purchased via the Microsoft Store, the third party developer's website, and even distributors. The cost should be the same regardless of where the third party product is purchased (at least that's how we're doing it).

2. Not really a tech demo, more like how things were with FS2004 and FSX as I described above.  It's just how it's always been.

3. The SDK is far from complete and there are other issues with the type of coding as well that are being addressed.  Coding wise scenery is fairly different than developing aircraft so we'll see a lot of that before we see what I refer to as high-end third party aircraft released. That said, a few developers are working on their aircraft for MSFS (we're currently working on our Twin Otter and CRJ-X) but it's very much like helping to build the SDK while building the aircraft so that's the process we're in.  It's not the first time for that either, and it was/is done with P3D as well.  But MSFS is also vastly different.

4. I used the MSFS Beta for some very specific reasons which did not involve looking at the flight dynamics, however I can tell you that I noticed the ground effect, a burble, and how a tail wind effected the tail of a small aircraft.  I'm sure Asobo isn't near done with flight dynamics and atmospherics yet.

5. This is my personal opinion:  Highly detailed aircraft very much depends on who the term is written for.  Right now it certainly is accurate if you're not an experienced flight simmer or pilot, and as I discussed in #4 there are already effects that are improved over FSX.  But it's also true that without forced feedback hardware there are things which one feels flying a real aircraft that can't been experienced in a desktop flight simulator (and of course things that can NEVER be experienced in a desktop sim regardless of of forced feedback).  As I've been saying all over the place, it's going to take time for MSFS to mature.

 

Without writing a dissertation, allow me to say that it's important for the flight sim community to support MSFS because without that support it's not going to mature.  But at the same time guys who fly airliners and want a high degree of fidelity will stick with P3Dv4/v5 and X-Plane.  I can tell you that I never stopped purchasing addons for other sims and I simply won't because I'm a flight simmer and I don't intend to take a break from the hobby I love until MSFS matures.

 

Best wishes to all!

 

 

11 minutes ago, fluffyflops said:

ahh. lets hope someone makes a nice airbus for ms2020.  

We're working on it, but it will be sometime.

 

23 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

(we're currently working on our Twin Otter

I love you ! plz be turbo plz be turbo plz be turbo 

Edited August 25, 20205 yr by SirDan

Just now, SirDan said:

I love you ! plz be turbo plz be turbo plz be turbo 

That's not my project, the best thing to do is visit our forum (link below) and post it there.

https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/forum/588-twin-otter-extended/

Best wishes!

 

2 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Okay, there are a lot of comments and questions that I'm not at liberty to discuss, but I can speak about a few of them.

1. Third party content can be sold / purchased via the Microsoft Store, the third party developer's website, and even distributors. The cost should be the same regardless of where the third party product is purchased (at least that's how we're doing it).

2. Not really a tech demo, more like how things were with FS2004 and FSX as I described above.  It's just how it's always been.

3. The SDK is far from complete and there are other issues with the type of coding as well that are being addressed.  Coding wise scenery is fairly different than developing aircraft so we'll see a lot of that before we see what I refer to as high-end third party aircraft released. That said, a few developers are working on their aircraft for MSFS (we're currently working on our Twin Otter and CRJ-X) but it's very much like helping to build the SDK while building the aircraft so that's the process we're in.  It's not the first time for that either, and it was/is done with P3D as well.  But MSFS is also vastly different.

4. I used the MSFS Beta for some very specific reasons which did not involve looking at the flight dynamics, however I can tell you that I noticed the ground effect, a burble, and how a tail wind effected the tail of a small aircraft.  I'm sure Asobo isn't near done with flight dynamics and atmospherics yet.

5. This is my personal opinion:  Highly detailed aircraft very much depends on who the term is written for.  Right now it certainly is accurate if you're not an experienced flight simmer or pilot, and as I discussed in #4 there are already effects that are improved over FSX.  But it's also true that without forced feedback hardware there are things which one feels flying a real aircraft that can't been experienced in a desktop flight simulator (and of course things that can NEVER be experienced in a desktop sim regardless of of forced feedback).  As I've been saying all over the place, it's going to take time for MSFS to mature.

 

Without writing a dissertation, allow me to say that it's important for the flight sim community to support MSFS because without that support it's not going to mature.  But at the same time guys who fly airliners and want a high degree of fidelity will stick with P3Dv4/v5 and X-Plane.  I can tell you that I never stopped purchasing addons for other sims and I simply won't because I'm a flight simmer and I don't intend to take a break from the hobby I love until MSFS matures.

 

Best wishes to all!

 

 

WellI I see this different

Quote: "Without writing a dissertation, allow me to say that it's important for the flight sim community to support MSFS because without that support it's not going to mature"

They simply should not have brought a product for Simmers in this unfinished status to the market. Because the product does simply not allow us to simulate flights, as the planes (Stock and Addon) simply are not their yet and probably not in the next 2 to 6 Months either. 

THAT is a big mistake in my opinion. I also have bought MSFS, but I was kind of shocked how many bugs and glitches are left in. Bugs and glitches which I personally di report in the Alpha AND Beta phase.

That let me assume, that we, as a Alpha and Beta Tester, where only used for 2 things:

- Testing performance and roll out processes for updates

- PR

So for now....and surely the next weeks and months, I will NOT buy any addons for MSFS, not fly IFR/Tubeliners (which ones?) and leave MSFS for what it is. 

P3D V5 is my way to go as long as MSFS is not speeding up and overtaking P3DV5.

I think MS did again make a BIG mistake. Simmers are NOT amused and gamers are probably happy as it is for now.

But we are talking about a simulator and we became a VFR fun simulation with a lot of issues.

I am a little sad that that is the way it is.

ADDED: I saw/read many developpers asking MONTHS ago for the needed SDK. These whishes where not answered to long or the sim came out to early.

Marcus

Edited August 25, 20205 yr by mpo910

53 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

So for now....and surely the next weeks and months, I will NOT buy any addons, not fly IFR/Tubeliners (which ones?) and leave MSFS for what it is.

Your post along with Dave's are pretty spot on. I am not sure that "the next weeks and months" is not going to make a lot of difference for a couple of reasons. First of all as stated by the Dev's, the next few months they are going to be busy trying to squeeze this mess into a magic x-box and for good reason. It will be a cash cow for the holiday season. Last but not least, it is starting to look like the Dev's are once again going to have to do the heavy lifting in the development of a working SDK and at the same time try to survive this mess. Both of these things are likely going to eat up a lot of time and resources for the near future. If your plan is to sit there and look at that shinny new 105 gigs of data until A2A or Aerosoft is able to bring you a properly designed and coded plane, then I suggest you go out tonight and buy a new fishing boat because you are going to have a lot of free time on your hands. Failing that, maybe just, oh I don't know, download a fresh copy of P3d or x-pain and buy a new addon or scenery and support a Dev. 

14 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Your post along with Dave's are pretty spot on. I am not sure that "the next weeks and months" is not going to make a lot of difference for a couple of reasons. First of all as stated by the Dev's, the next few months they are going to be busy trying to squeeze this mess into a magic x-box and for good reason. It will be a cash cow for the holiday season. Last but not least, it is starting to look like the Dev's are once again going to have to do the heavy lifting in the development of a working SDK and at the same time try to survive this mess. Both of these things are likely going to eat up a lot of time and resources for the near future. If your plan is to sit there and look at that shinny new 105 gigs of data until A2A or Aerosoft is able to bring you a properly designed and coded plane, then I suggest you go out tonight and buy a new fishing boat because you are going to have a lot of free time on your hands. Failing that, maybe just, oh I don't know, download a fresh copy of P3d or x-pain and buy a new addon or scenery and support a Dev. 

NOTE: I do buy addons for P3D but just not for MSFS 😉

3 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

 (we're currently working on our Twin Otter and CRJ-X)

 

And there you already have a sale from me. Can't wait to do some Winair flights between St Maarten and the surrounding islands. Now to see if FlyTampa or Airworthy Designs will release TNCM first.

If it's a platform for gamers, they better figure it out quick because they are usually only around until the next big game drops, same for the content creators. The only people staying around for the long haul are the true simmers. 

17 hours ago, Boeingnut said:

Is it just my perception or have many 3rd party developers halted/abandoned planned updates and/or releases for P3d v5 and moved directly to MSFS 2020? Some developers have been excellent (yes there are glitches here and there, but not of any consequence). However I keep on seeing scenery that was to be released for p3d, now conspicuously absent, in favour of screen shots on how it looks in MSFS2020.

Yeah, it’s just you ...

Just kiddin’. Developers will release scenery for all sims as that gives the best possibility to make money....

Just now, GSalden said:

Developers will release scenery for all sims as that gives the best possibility to make money....

Actually, I like developing something that gives me joy and is fun to do :)

S.

17 hours ago, Boeingnut said:

Is it just my perception or have many 3rd party developers halted/abandoned planned updates and/or releases for P3d v5 and moved directly to MSFS 2020? Some developers have been excellent (yes there are glitches here and there, but not of any consequence). However I keep on seeing scenery that was to be released for p3d, now conspicuously absent, in favour of screen shots on how it looks in MSFS2020.

You're totally right, I feel Like having been let down bye 3 PD developers. They're not bothering with non MSFS products anymore

Edited August 25, 20205 yr by aguiar

6 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Yeah, it’s just you ...

Just kiddin’. Developers will release scenery for all sims as that gives the best possibility to make money....

True, but I was referring to companies that were on the cusp of releasing products for P3d v5 and then, regardless of how close they were to finishing a product, just shifted gears. We then get statements like : "We are taking a couple of days off from working on Vancouver for P3D to play around with MSFS2020" followed by: "Expect screenshots on P3D in a few days". They did release screen shots, but they were of a preliminary attempt at a port over to MSFS. Needless to say, there has been no further comment on P3d products from this developer. They are not alone.

11 minutes ago, Boeingnut said:

True, but I was referring to companies that were on the cusp of releasing products for P3d v5 and then, regardless of how close they were to finishing a product, just shifted gears. We then get statements like : "We are taking a couple of days off from working on Vancouver for P3D to play around with MSFS2020" followed by: "Expect screenshots on P3D in a few days". They did release screen shots, but they were of a preliminary attempt at a port over to MSFS. Needless to say, there has been no further comment on P3d products from this developer. They are not alone.

They are only two guys (or at least that's what they said last year) -- so I have no issue with them taking a little time off to play around with MSFS.