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goodperson36

Is This The End of Prepar3D v4.5

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2 hours ago, GSalden said:

All my addons are working in V5. Only 2 of my 125 scenery addons needed an update ( alt issues ) which has been released.

Very stable and DX12. Also the Shaders have been modified to my liking with Envshade as a base and several extra shader tweaks I created myself.

pretty much the same deal here.  The only one I really find myself missing is jetstream Little Rock


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5 hours ago, kingm56 said:

The difference between MSFS and P3DV5 are stark, which increases development costs.

Such as? 

Both support PBR with the exception P3D V5 currently does not support AO (sat imagery and photogrammetry is not relevant to PMDG other than it brings more customers to the platform).  From a 3D modelling perspective, there are subtle difference in workflow and setting of values/parameters in 3DSMax but the geometry and texture assets are going to be the same from prior products and this is why you are seeing airports being quickly ported over which I have no problem with ... getting those assets from various airports around the world is time consuming and not cheap and that assumes "permission" is granted.  

The big issue is the limitation of the MS/Asobo SDK and their choice to use WASM rather than allowing for standard in-process DLLs.  This is Asobo's choice and mostly done for platform portability with the hope of more sales. 

The other big issue is that MS/Asobo released a product that clearly is NOT complete which has left MANY existing 3rd party DLC providers twiddling their thumbs (like PMDG, FSLab, etc.) ... I don't know if MS planned this "by design" killing off an  revenue stream for an old platform and then NOT providing a method (sufficient complete SDK) to generate a new revenue stream ... it's either being blind or cut throat, take your pick.  I'm going to assume MS/Asobo knew exactly what they were doing and what was going to happen especially given the timing and how this was pushed out incomplete.  Pretty sure PMDG, FSLabs, etc. aren't terribly pleased they've hit the wall of incomplete SDK for MSFS ... I can assure you the "front facing" might be all nice and polite, but behind the scenes it's "you've killed my revenue stream for 2 years".   

So it's NOT a matter of increased development costs, but a matter of "we can't do that with what Asobo have provided".  The SDK is available to all to verify my "claim", install it, read the docs and then go "oh yeah it's incomplete".

I know many have detected some "angst" with me and MSFS, it's not MSFS that I have angst with, it's MS part (aka Microsoft).  As with most, I like what I see visually in MSFS, sure it has a few issues, but how the SDK was developed and release schedule and overall management by MS, that to me feels more like "punishment" (or perhaps just lack of caring) than "partnership". 

Cheers, Rob.

 

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12 hours ago, sho69607 said:

I still have FS2004 installed on my system and use it occasionally. The graphics are a bit of an eyesore, but I have so many addons that were never converted to a 64-bit environment so I don't want to give it up. Plus it runs like an absolute dream (obviously it's 16 years old).

This statement, I believe is spot on the money.  I still enjoy FS2004 (scenery graphics aside) Interestingly, I am running at a maximum of 60FPS and that has not gone up since my i7 2600k days.

I also have FSX and FSX-SE which I never use (with my old hardware I was never able to complete a single flight) mainly because P3D came along and I could not see the point of building it up when P3D was better and money was better spent there. FSW came along, got my money and then died. P3D evolved to 4.5 and I was still investing in Australian scenery and aircraft.  MSFS emerged and I was fortunate in that, I had very few problems with it. I note with emphasis that default OZ scenery is extremely pretty but also mostly inaccurate and I have to assume that is largely the same with the rest of the world. After having a good look at that, I then bought P3Dv5 which I am very happy with except for the lack of compatible iFly 737 and 747 (I am still hopeful though) Xplane has also been on my system and has become a great sim over the years.  I do not think their scenery graphics are as good as P3D v4 or v5 but they are OK.

Being a retired pensioner, I am extremely fortunate, in that I have the time, and since retirement, I have never flown a single sim platform on any given day.  I generally fly at least two flight per day and I swap sims for each and every flight.  The only exception to that is that with a new sim ie v5 or xplane with Vulcan, I spend a day or two just doing circuits with different aircraft to get the "feel" of it all. MSFS was 4 days just doing circuits. 

So over the course of a week, I manage to squeeze in every platform and enjoy them all, for their individual and different areas of excellence.  

From that point of view, I don't see any platform as broken or dead. FS2004 is seeing very little further 3pd development and I think FSX is certainly on a slow and steady path to that same point.  I do not believe P3D nor Xplane is anywhere near that, and once the euphoria of MSFS newness wears off I think things will return to normal.

Another aspect, that may be not be taken into account is the impact of CV-19. There is a huge amount of people who have literally ceased earning an income or have had income reduced considerably. These affected people are certainly not buying at a normal rate which I think 3PDs for each platforms have taken into account. 

I do not think LM or Laminar have given up development and scenery streaming when (not if) eventuates for those platforms, the incredible aircraft developers for both P3D and Xplane will have the potential to exceed MSFS. 

It is not a time to give up hope.  I have settled back, watching all the fuss, and enjoying to the max, every sim on the market.  I think it is good advice to recommend that we all do the same.

Regards to all

Tony       

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Tony Chilcott.

 

My System. Motherboard. ASRock Taichi X570 CPU Ryzen 9 3900x (not yet overclocked). RAM 32gb Corsair Vengeance (2x16) 3200mhz. 1 x Gigabyte Aorus GTX1080ti Extreme and a 1200watt PSU.

1 x 1tb SSD 3 x 240BG SSD and 4 x 2TB HDD

OS Win 10 Pro 64bit. Simulators ... FS2004/P3Dv4.5/Xplane.DCS/Aeroflyfs2...MSFS to come for sure.

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I agree rob. I can remember all the pre release videos thinking wow this going to be incredible. Then my immediate disappointment with the alpha. Felt like a bait and switch. Then thought oh it’s young it will develop. Now I can no longer say it will. They may be banking on the Xbox community. But I actually believed this would be a simulator for those of us who are serious about the hobby. The good news is I never stopped buying addons for P3d. In retrospect this looks like it was a wise move. 

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15 hours ago, lzamm said:

Old sims never die.  They simply fade away... 😀

Or not.....

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17 hours ago, toprob said:

I've been inclined to say that MSFS is new and exciting, so let's just wait until things settle down a bit before we start writing off simulators.

However....

As a developer, I've very much aware that my sales of Prepar3d scenery halved when MSFS was announced, and have all but ceased since the release. I've recently updated a couple of scenery products to Prepar3d v5, which were made available to existing owners, and the few new sales I've had probably won't cover the cost of bandwidth from the existing customer redownloads. So I'd need to see a very strong indication that Prepar3d is actually alive before I put another hour into development.

Interesting.  Thank you.

Just for feedback, FYI, what-have-you...I'm still on P3Dv4.5.  I'm waiting for P3Dv5.1 feedback/insight before I switch to v5.  If v5.1 is a "hit", I'll be investing in that platform.  If it "falls short," sticking with v4.5.

I personally have lost hope for MSFS for at least the next 3 years.  It isn't until the ENTIRE/ALL product lines of PMDG, FSLabs, FlyMaddogx, and Majestic -8 are STABLE in MSFS that I will be migrating over.

In other words, I plan on still buying for P3D...just a matter of which version.

Thank you 

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Aaron Ortega

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1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I can assure you the "front facing" might be all nice and polite, but behind the scenes it's "you've killed my revenue stream for 2 years".   

This is 100% True.  Even I run a business, trust me I know about Revenue Stream.  It is ultra important; it is lifeblood of any business.

Edited by Skywolf
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11 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

The other big issue is that MS/Asobo released a product that clearly is NOT complete which has left MANY existing 3rd party DLC providers twiddling their thumbs (like PMDG, FSLab, etc.) ... I don't know if MS planned this "by design" killing off an  revenue stream for an old platform and then NOT providing a method (sufficient complete SDK) to generate a new revenue stream ... it's either being blind or cut throat, take your pick.  I'm going to assume MS/Asobo knew exactly what they were doing and what was going to happen especially given the timing and how this was pushed out incomplete.  Pretty sure PMDG, FSLabs, etc. aren't terribly pleased they've hit the wall of incomplete SDK for MSFS ... I can assure you the "front facing" might be all nice and polite, but behind the scenes it's "you've killed my revenue stream for 2 years".   

That is rather damning.

Although I don't quite see what Asobo/MS would gain from hurting 3PD's business?

I find it much more likely that MS wasn't happy with the progress Asobo was making and how much it was costing MS, and then told them to release this in whatever state it's in. That sounds like what game publishers do all the time.

 

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1 hour ago, flycln said:

That is rather damning.

Although I don't quite see what Asobo/MS would gain from hurting 3PD's business?

I find it much more likely that MS wasn't happy with the progress Asobo was making and how much it was costing MS, and then told them to release this in whatever state it's in. That sounds like what game publishers do all the time.

 

It's difficult to know the motivation behind MSFS being released incomplete, but it's far from unusual for game developers to put out new pc software unfinished. The main thing that puts me off MSFS is that they will pull the plug on it if sales don't meet expectations and/or new management comes in looking for a way to increase the bottom line. When you have a sim that relies on servers being active, that is a major problem.

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1 hour ago, flycln said:

Although I don't quite see what Asobo/MS would gain from hurting 3PD's business?

That makes two of us. Not the first time this claim has been made, and I've never seen an explanation of exactly what the play is supposed to be here. To be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible that a business would do something ruthless (happens all the time!), just that these dots don't actually seem to connect. Maybe I'm just slow. But what exactly is the motive here supposed to be?

James

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26 minutes ago, simfan1983 said:

It's difficult to know the motivation behind MSFS being released incomplete, but it's far from unusual for game developers to put out new pc software unfinished. The main thing that puts me off MSFS is that they will pull the plug on it if sales don't meet expectations and/or new management comes in looking for a way to increase the bottom line. When you have a sim that relies on servers being active, that is a major problem.

This remains my single biggest concern also.  It was no big deal when Microsoft pulled out the first time with FSX.  We had the bones in place to build on.  When a simulator requires streaming and a server there is no longer anything if they decide to kill it off.  

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27 minutes ago, micstatic said:

This remains my single biggest concern also.  It was no big deal when Microsoft pulled out the first time with FSX.  We had the bones in place to build on.  When a simulator requires streaming and a server there is no longer anything if they decide to kill it off.  

Indeed, or they can just force out a paid upgrade every year or two and customers have no choice but to pay if they want to continue using the sim.

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