1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

What they gain is removal of 3PDs business on OTHER FS platforms (i.e. the competition) ... which is exactly what happened with a 1 year early announcement of a new FS just 1 day prior to FSExpo.  This then allows Microsoft to dictate the terms, which is exactly what they've done with early release and incomplete SDK and forced to use WASM rather than a better and easier option of In-Process DLLs.  

MS Flight was a lesson for Microsoft, a lesson they didn't like where 3PDs rejected their business model, 3PDs were "in control".  This time around, Microsoft positioned themselves so that would NOT happen again.

You really believe Microsoft (at $44 Billion net income) "had to release" FS due to financial concerns?

Cheers, Rob.

Electronic Arts doesn't "have to release" games early either, yet they do so all the time. The fact that they make lots of money doesn't mean they don't monitor the costs of individual projects very tightly.

In fact I can easily think of other MS-funded games that were released early for that very reason. Microsoft made billions even years ago yet they cut funding of Vanguard (an MMO which then had to change to a different publisher) when they didn't like the progress made which forced the game to release early and contributed to its failure.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. And in fact I assume you know more about the Flight Sim and 3PD scene than I do, so you certainly gave me something to think about. I still wouldn't rule out incompetence and MS forcing Asobo to release the game for the reasons I mentioned.

Edited October 21, 20205 yr by flycln

I dont buy any of the theories here. If I was in charge at MS I would focus more on the sim then the SDK before release because that's what most customers are buying. 

Hello customers, here is an incomplete flight sim but check out our impressive SDK!

I dont think they wanted to harm 3PDs or starve any market when they announced the sim. Their only thoughts were marketing their product well, building anticipation and selling lots of copies on release - the same as any business. I do agree though they have harmed 3pds to some extent as Rob said.

Yes the SDK is not complete just 2 months after release. But they are working on it. It will take time and thats the way it is.

The Aerosoft CRJ is being released in the next few months so there seems to be enough to build a plane even if you cant simulate pump failures or spend 45 minutes flicking switches.

Edited October 21, 20205 yr by sanh

2 minutes ago, sanh said:

The Aerosoft CRJ is being released in the next few months so there seems to be enough to build a plane even if you cant simulate pump failures or spend 45 minutes flicking switches.

Considering the autopilot Hans has created in the CRJ is about as reliable as the MSFS default autopilot I have no doubt he can create a plane  of equal... uhh... quality. 

Edited October 21, 20205 yr by flycln

2 hours ago, sanh said:

The Aerosoft CRJ is being released in the next few months so there seems to be enough to build a plane even if you cant simulate pump failures or spend 45 minutes flicking switches.

You are obviously not a serious sim enthusiast. Systems simulation is more important than being able to identify the new mall they built in your home town, appearing in your streamed scenery! You ask any real pilot if he thinks spending "45 minutes flicking switches" is a waste of time, or part of a necessary check list! Good God man!!

Edited October 21, 20205 yr by Boeingnut

On 10/21/2020 at 5:23 AM, Rob_Ainscough said:

I don't know if MS planned this "by design" killing off an  revenue stream for an old platform and then NOT providing a method (sufficient complete SDK) to generate a new revenue stream ... it's either being blind or cut throat, take your pick.  I'm going to assume MS/Asobo knew exactly what they were doing and what was going to happen especially given the timing and how this was pushed out incomplete.

What part of this does not say ‘it’s possible MS or MS/Asobo (you use both interchangeably here) planned to kill off a revenue stream and not provide a new one, they’re either incompetent or malicious, you decide, but I think they knew exactly what they were doing (which suggests you think they were cutthroat rather than blind)?

What other meaning did you intend by this?

 

edit: and looking at other reactions to your post, clearly most others have interpreted your words in exactly the same way.

Edited October 21, 20205 yr by scotchegg

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Have you gone thru it to see if my "claim" of the SDK being very incomplete is accurate?  Do you feel PMDG, FSLabs, Hans from AS, and other DLC providers are just making stuff?

If you really want to debate this rather than making stuff up, then install the SDK, read the documentation, and come back with something meaningful.

I made no comment at all about whether what you said about the completeness of the SDK was valid. As anyone can see, my comments were only about what you hypothesized of MS/Asobo’s competence and intentions.

6 hours ago, GSalden said:

It really seems hard for you to respond in a normal way to what others write ....

This kind of nonsense you may keep to yourself.

 

I was responding to a suggestion MS act unethically because they avoid tax. If your moral compass doesn’t allow you to see any irony in seeing tax avoidance as unethical but not manufacturing weapons of mass destruction, then I can see how my reaction is nonsense for you.

22 minutes ago, Boeingnut said:

You are obviously not a serious sim enthusiast.

Easy there, sport. If you are into GA VFR, accurate terrain, coastlines, cities are rather important for us. 🤗

More so than if PMDG modelled Schuler period oscillations in their 737NGXu Inertial Reference System.

43 minutes ago, Boeingnut said:

You are obviously not a serious sim enthusiast. Systems simulation is more important than being able to identify the new mall they built in your home town, appearing in your streamed scenery! You ask any real pilot if he thinks spending "45 minutes flicking switches" is a waste of time, or part of a necessary check list! Good God man!!

What is a "serious sim enthusiast"? I don't care about identifying malls or places and to suggest that's all those who are not "serious" do is incorrect and smacks of elitism. I want the simulation of flight i.e. handling the controls and testing my flying skills to land in tricky airports or bad weather.

As for your last sentence I would advise you to remember you are also sitting behind your little computer pretending to be a pilot.

The year is 2028. In Avsim ppl will refer to this time with, "you all remember the flight sim wars of the early 2020's".

10 minutes ago, sanh said:

do is incorrect and smacks of elitism

I was wondering how long it would take for someone here to play the dreaded "e-card"? It's one thing to treat everybody fairly and equitably. It's another thing to assume that everyone has equal training and experience. The internet has created instant millionaires, instant celebrities and instant experts on on everything. It has also fostered hatred for the "elites", people seen as knowledgeable and having the power to dispel myths and contradict lies. 

33 minutes ago, sanh said:

What is a "serious sim enthusiast"? I don't care about identifying malls or places and to suggest that's all those who are not "serious" do is incorrect and smacks of elitism. I want the simulation of flight i.e. handling the controls and testing my flying skills to land in tricky airports or bad weather.

As for your last sentence I would advise you to remember you are also sitting behind your little computer pretending to be a pilot.

Yes, pretending and buying software that simulates proper procedure (as much as it can), complex systems, and accurate flight models. If I wanted to pretend in a cardboard box with crappy gauges and stream scenery on a monitor, I would have purchased MSFS.

2 hours ago, Boeingnut said:

If I wanted to pretend in a cardboard box with crappy gauges and stream scenery on a monitor, I would have purchased MSFS.

As the proud owner of a very nice cardboard box I sir am offended that you are trying to associate it's value to MSFS. I just want to point out that the cardboard box is a useful and complete product that has been tested by "real cardboard box users" Developers are permitted to use them for millions of product delivery addons and the developers of the cardboard boxes did nothing to kill the income of a good part of a small industry for the past year and who knows about the future. Let's show a little respect for the cardboard box...Please!!

1 minute ago, shivers9 said:

As the proud owner of a very nice cardboard box I sir am offended that you are trying to associate it's value to MSFS. I just want to point out that the cardboard box is a useful and complete product that has been tested by "real cardboard box users" Developers are permitted to use them for millions of product delivery addons and the developers of the cardboard boxes did nothing to kill the income of a good part of a small industry for the past year and who knows about the future. Let's show a little respect for the cardboard box...Please!!

Fair enough; some of my best friends have cardboard boxes.

9 hours ago, scotchegg said:

I was responding to a suggestion MS act unethically because they avoid tax. If your moral compass doesn’t allow you to see any irony in seeing tax avoidance as unethical but not manufacturing weapons of mass destruction, then I can see how my reaction is nonsense for you.

Your only goal at Avsim is trying to stir the pot looking at your posts. Nothing else...

Grow up and try to participate in a normal way...