1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

Can the modded 320 reach the FSL level  ?

I suspect the Aerosoft Airbus is a more realistic target/goal, though I’d be happy to be proven wrong!

2 hours ago, JoeFackel said:

Leepu from "Chop Shop: London Garage" also builds interesting cars

Yeah, but can he build a 747?

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

Can the modded 320 reach the FSL level  ? If it is possible, it will take time

Isn't that exactly what FSL and PMDG are doing?

Edited October 28, 20205 yr by airlinejets

4 minutes ago, CJ1045 said:

It seems to me that there are quite a few people here that don't seem to realise that MSFS has changed the playing field. There is no need to pay big money for amazing planes. We are also not at the point yet when Asobo have released any of their own DLC planes beyond the Deluxe etc. We also have not hit the point where the Xbox version has been released and this is going to force improvements in the default planes by Asobo as mods will be impossible and console owners will not accept broken planes.

I really do agree that this Sim has moved the goal posts.  That said, I believe, that a FEW of our premier commercial developers will go on to achieve in this arena as well.  Their development efforts will have to be considerably greater, and the fidelity they achieve will have to be near perfect, as the freeware community is producing absolutely BRILLIANT content, and they too will achieve more and better as the SDK becomes comprehensive.

These are, as I keep saying, early days.  The sim (despite release) really is in it's infancy, and as the collective community (both commercial and altruistic) expands and matures, the resultant output promises to be superlative.

At the moment, I wrestle with wanting to support development by purchasing from commercial developers, and wanting to encourage full use of the sim's capabilities before spending my Dollars.  I was recently taught a very valuable (albeit relatively inexpensive) lesson with my St.Pete/Clearwater and Sanford scenery purchases.  Both of these are just a micro-step up from the default and in retrospect, a waste of money.  Reading about that developer's prior releases, did not leave me with any increased comfort about updates. Caveat Emptor!

The next several months will be an exercise in patience.  I'm not good about sitting on my hands and not purchasing add-ons, but I am told that patience is a virtue.

It's a GREAT time to be a simmer and a freeware developer.  A little more disconcerting for the commercial crowd.  Their P3D and XPL buyers are slowing in creeping realization of the inevitable... and yet, the sim isn't where it needs to be for their ultimate success....

All this will either be brilliant or rubbish in 12 months.

C

58 minutes ago, micstatic said:

It is very impressive what we've seen in the zibo and the most current MSFS airbus mod.  Pretty amazing actually.  However, I don't think we've seen anything in these projects that has surpassed the best payware aircraft.  I don't mean that as an insult either.  

Give them 2 years like is expected from the payware guys and we'll see.

I agree. Freeware groups have more developers and work faster than payware groups; That doesn't mean the PMDGs and FSLabs are lacking in passion and quality. 

Sometimes in life you do get what you pay for.

Define "study level." Who certifies a product of being worthy of the "study level" badge of honor? 

Study level is a moniker that is applied to all high quality aircraft add-ons and is often applied the status either by the developer or by a group fanatics who follow the developer. However, there is no minimum level of systems or avionics replication. 

There used to be independent reviews by the FS webzines that would take a hard look at all of the pieces that make up the add-on by people who knew what they were looking at. But, the ability of any one to spit out a Youtube video or a Twitch twitchy the day a product is released has seemed to have mostly killed off the semi-profesional review. In some cases these videos are clearly thrown up by people with an axe to grind specifically highlighting a dozens of bugs with no mention of any good points of a product. 

The review process is even hard with developers who keep their products behind a top secret curtain only allowing their own approved images and videos prior to release and ofen releasing products with the full intent to clean it up over a series of patches and hotfixes. So the review teams at places like AVSIM have all but floundered unable to keep up with the second after release "unboxing" style videos or the months of patches until the product is really ready. Even FSElite is struggling to get out aircraft addon reviews. Then there is the issue where these sites refuse to call a bad product well, bad. 

Thus you now have the various communities such as these forums and reddit where a group of users will banter and eventually call something "study level" issuing upon a product this badge of honor. If people on a forum start calling the FBW A320 or WT CJ4 "study level" the honorific sticks and so it is.

Ah the double edge that is social media.   

Nobody contests that the freeware groups working now have talents and an impressive reactivity. I would even say that I don't remember having seen such a reactivity after a release in  40 years of flight simulation. 

 For a year, I have said  we would see an explosion of freeware and payware with the new sim when some were saying (you know from where they come from) that we wouldn't see anything before years or ever. I am glad to see that the freeware folks work so fast on mending the default aircraft . Again, this is possible because Asobo has laid down the foundation (default aircraft with FMC for instance).

But to say that we wouldn't require payware in the future  is a nonsense. I do hope to see these freeware groups shape up in companies and be new competitors on the field of payware aircraft.    That would be an enormous step to consolidate this hobby.

Is anyone here aware as to direct me how to contact Flybywire team please?

Thank you.

There is a vast difference between fixing and tweaking something which already exists, and making something completely from scratch.

Aircraft doesn't become study level just because it goes from arcade level to normal . There are much more in study level that has to be included like abnormal and emergency procedures, failures and etc 

2 hours ago, CJ1045 said:

There is no need to pay big money for amazing planes.

Depends how you define amazing. Frankly several of the default planes are amazing. For default planes. Up against the heavyweights like PMDG, Leonardo, even Flysimware and from certain aspects even the lower devs like Carenado, they're not even close. 

Same, btw, goes for Zibo's efforts. It's an amazing effort and frankly Zibo would be entirely justified to charge for it, but it doesn't come close to the PMDG equivalent on p3d.

 

7 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'd love to see a list of "Freeware" A320 features in MSFS and a list of FSLabs A320 features ...

I think only you and Dominique have mentioned the FSL in this thread. I doubt anyone who's used both would seriously compare the FSL and the FBW A320, impressive as the work the FBW modders have done undoubtedly is -- particularly at this stage, a couple of months in.

A comparison between the FBW A320 and the Aerosoft Airbus series, on the other hand, would be worthwhile and illuminating, IMHO. I'd start it myself but I haven't used the Aerosoft one in several years (having moved to the FSL series in P3D).

James

5 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

As the dedicated team at Working Title demonstrates almost daily, a dedicated group of freeware modders can achieve work similar (and in many cases even better work) compared to what payware developers deliver.

Happy Days are here again!

this guys are absolutely insane, its really hard to believe they doing it, every single day new feature/fix! high times indeed!

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

That doesn't mean the PMDGs and FSLabs are lacking in passion and quality.

What i know is that FSLabs are lacking manners when interacting with their customers, thats for sure 😐