1 minute ago, David Roch said:

You're probably a young guy playing multiple games on your PC and I hear what you say.
My single aim is to get the best experience I can with flight simulators.
And for that I don't need over 30 FPS, believe me - or not.
😉

Well sort of....turning 38 this month. 

I believe it and respect your needs. Mine are different though and as long as my PC can offer me the expected performance i am a very happy gamer.

If you're happy with 30FPS thats great but it would never be acceptable for me. Tried it but didn't like it.

I fly airliners. 30 is all I need. 

6 hours ago, Nyxx said:

You can see what mouse lag is like on my dest top, just move your mouse round in small circular as fast as you can.

Thanks, the next time I want to play the "Move the Mouse!" game I will be sure to change frequency back to 60+.  Now if only that applied to ANY FLIGHT SIMULATION it might actually make sense.  I'll leave it where I started which is that I feel for those obsessed w/ this issue as it forces them to trade image quality for reduction of mouse lag, and it absolutely does.  Good luck with that I'll see you at 60+Hz when the hardware can handle it at ultra settings anywhere on the planet.

This discussion has really focused on FPS as if it’s the only visual element that matters. I guess we’re all running Ultra settings or close to it?

I really need two different settings...

I usually fly the A320 between cities and then use the 208B for sight seeing around the area.

When flying the A320 IFR, terrain rendering quality is almost irrelevant but cloud and weather quality are king. And AI traffic is important for immersion at major airports. FPS above 30 is really not that important.

When flying VFR in the Grand Caravan, terrain quality and LOD is more important along with FPS when panning around my camera views. But cloud rendering is not that important. 

Of the two, the VFR flights are the most graphically demanding by a long shot. But they both require different settings trade-offs. 

Edited December 12, 20205 yr by Virtual-Chris

Would love to have an option to save custom graphics profiles.  Would make it so much easier to tailor settings to a given use scenario and be able to load them up quickly.

4 hours ago, Noel said:

Thanks, the next time I want to play the "Move the Mouse!" game I will be sure to change frequency back to 60+.  Now if only that applied to ANY FLIGHT SIMULATION it might actually make sense.  I'll leave it where I started which is that I feel for those obsessed w/ this issue as it forces them to trade image quality for reduction of mouse lag, and it absolutely does.  Good luck with that I'll see you at 60+Hz when the hardware can handle it at ultra settings anywhere on the planet.

My image quality is spot on thank you and no mouse lag also.
You talk about “ANY FLIGHT SIMULATION” well what about DCS? It needs more than 30 FPS, it runs so much better at 60 FPS With TrackIR, Did you need the caps lock to make yourself look really silly?

MSFS I run full Ultra but at 40 because it’s smoother and TrackIR is also smoother with the extra FPS. TrackIR shows clearly any lag.

Also out side of any flight simulation, I enjoy RDR2, Doom and Cyberpunk, they all need 60 FPS to run smoothly, at 30Hz, not for me but if people enjoy it and it works for them great.
But I will leave the childish ill thought out comments like “move the mouse game” to you.

Edited December 12, 20205 yr by Nyxx

2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

But I will leave the childish ill thought out comments like “move the mouse game” to you.

Sorry you beat me to the childish ill thought part when you provided the move the mouse as fast as you can test as some kind of justification that a frame rate of 60 matters in civilian flight simulation.   If you're at 40 in MSFS, if you have g-sync screen, I could appreciate that since you have roughly 40% more GPU than I'm currently privy to so likely you can maintain that.  As in the OSD images posted I was at a spot where the sim could maintain 40 but w/o vsync or gsync smoothness is ultimately less than when vsync'd to 30Hz.  I learned TrackIR has a whole different issue w/ respect to 30Hz but forgot to acknowledge that in this discussion.

Edited December 12, 20205 yr by Noel

25 minutes ago, Noel said:

the move the mouse as fast as you can trick as some kind of justification that a frame rate of 60 matters in civilian flight simulation to the extent one would trade in higher graphic settings to be able to look at a 60Hz screen.   I

Its not any sort of justification that it matters in a civ sim at all.

Its simply a way of seeing how fast your screen is refreshing you movements. It also has nothing to do with trading higher graphic setting.

I have read and seen many people like the 30Hz and 30 FPS lock/sync and good for them finding there happy place. If that works for you and anyone else that’s great.
 

But it sure is not for everyone or everyone needs.

As for the rest of your comments above, yes 40 FPS is easy and imo TrackIR needs the extra, in P3D I could run 30 FPS but not TrackIR because it was a stuttering mess, or put better TrackIR made any movement look stutter. MSFS and P3D can run perfectly at 30 FPS and even when I run MSFS at 60 FPS as I can, it still not smooth than 40 FPS to my eyes. But with TrackIR added 40 is a huge difference from 30. 
 

So each to there own and needs, there simply was no need for your attack and comments on a simple explanation on a simple way to see how fast your screen is refreshing.
 

 

Edited December 12, 20205 yr by Nyxx

4 hours ago, Nyxx said:

 

MSFS I run full Ultra but at 40 because it’s smoother and TrackIR is also smoother with the extra FPS. TrackIR shows clearly any lag.

 

That is likely an artefact of CPU loading.

I actually gave trackIr it's own core in Process Lasso and increased it's priority. I have a 6 core CPU ( i5 8400) so restricted MSFS to cores 1 to 5 and locked trackir to core 0 . It does seem to help be interested to know what other people find.

Note that personally I cap my FPS at 36 fps (one quarter of my monitor native freq of 144hz) 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

1 hour ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Note that personally I cap my FPS at 36 fps (one quarter of my monitor native freq of 144hz) 

That is a unique compromise.  How does it fair, and are you using RTSS?

2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

there simply was no need for your attack and comments on a simple explanation on a simple way to see how fast your screen is refreshing.

I'll stand by the comment that your illustration was perfect for one thing only:  manifesting mouse lag caused by refresh rate, but was irrelevent in the context of a civilian flight sim, period, over and out.  Further, all else being equal, you ARE trading in visual quality.  You might not be because you have a 3080 in the box, but many to most don't.  Throw in a PMDG 777 and see how your box keeps up w/ that as well. You're the dude who started w/ the 'childish ill thought' attack so yes, over and out.  

2 hours ago, Noel said:

I'll stand by the comment that your illustration was perfect for one thing only:  manifesting mouse lag caused by refresh rate, but was irrelevent in the context of a civilian flight sim, period, over and out.  Further, all else being equal, you ARE trading in visual quality.  You might not be because you have a 3080 in the box, but many to most don't.  Throw in a PMDG 777 and see how your box keeps up w/ that as well. You're the dude who started w/ the 'childish ill thought' attack so yes, over and out.  

You should ask him if he's interested in PMDGs 777 or equal addons. If not why should he run it? Makes no sense. 

Yesterday i gave the 30Hz thing another try and i admit there is somehing like a "feel of smoothnes" as soon as you are above a certain height. But taxiing around or flying low level you just cant oversee the low refresh rate. Just observe the ground movement. Not to mention the Camera panning.

All in all i am happily willing to trade some graphical detail such as lowering the shadows and playing in 1440p to play in 60hz (anywhere in the world as you said). Even though i barely leave central Europe....

30 minutes ago, ThomseN_inc said:

you just cant oversee the low refresh rate. Just observe the ground movement. Not to mention the Camera panning.

You apparently can't overlook the low refresh rate, but I don't have this need and feel for those who do.  Now I suppose if I very rapidly panned back and forth repeatedly, as in the proposed mouse lag test, then I wouldn't be surprised I'd notice something was amiss.  But I don't use the mouse like that ever, nor do I pan like that ever in sim.  I find panning, taxiing, nothing short of smooth and stutter-free, and a good part of that besides the vsync is having headroom.  I very much appreciate the fact my CPU/GPU isn't busily using up precious processing power to deliver 60 frames per second.  And looking at a movie at 24-30 frames per second doesn't cause me any grief either.  

I does beg the question: why do we perceive this so differently?  Lots of folks w/ high end gear here are into this same model.  Once again I'll leave it with this:  glad I don't suffer from the need to look at 60fps/60Hz as the processing power just isn't there currently and won't be in P3D nor MSFS throughout the virtual worlds, and yes I'm planning on enjoying PMDG and a few others, so we're planning for that.  You'll find many here with the highest end gear who also take advanage of its clear benefits.

Central Europe is a hard place to leave it's been so well done!

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by Noel

24 minutes ago, Noel said:

You apparently can't overlook the low refresh rate, but I don't have this need and feel for those who do.  Now I suppose if I very rapidly panned back and forth repeatedly, as in the proposed mouse lag test, then I wouldn't be surprised I'd notice something was amiss.  But I don't use the mouse like that ever, nor do I pan like that ever in sim.  I find panning, taxiing, nothing short of smooth and stutter-free, and a good part of that besides the vsync is having headroom.  I very much appreciate the fact my CPU/GPU isn't busily using up precious processing power to deliver 60 frames per second.  And looking at a movie at 24-30 frames per second doesn't cause me any grief either.  

I does beg the question: why do we perceive this so differently?  Lots of folks w/ high end gear here are into this same model.  Once again I'll leave it with this:  glad I don't suffer from the need to look at 60fps/60Hz as the processing power just isn't there currently and won't be in P3D nor MSFS throughout the virtual worlds, and yes I'm planning on enjoying PMDG and a few others, so we're planning for that.  You'll find many here with the highest end gear who also take advanage of its clear benefits.

Central Europe is a hard place to leave it's been so well done!

 

No i can't overlook it. I think its like a scratch in the car...once you've seen it, you can't overlook it. I decided to give 30hz another try for some days to see if i get used to it. Just being curious...

 

When I assembled this machine last March I ran P3D v4.5 vsync to 60Hz in the uber easy to run Majestic Q400 in easy to process scenery so I had no trouble maintaining the minimum 60 frames.  It was marginally better, but really the operative word is marginally, at least I think it was.  So back I went to 30Hz vsync and never went back.  When I can run everywhere in everything fully maxed then we go to 60hz vsync.  It may well happen in the next few years, but honestly if it didn't, it would not matter.   In fact, if additional visuals were offered over and above MSFS' current ULTRA settings I would absolutely opt for that over 60Hz vsync.  I stumbled by accident into 30hz vsync as someone mentioned it in the P3D forum and fortunately my monitor could do it.  It's better than RTSS's method as well for limiting frames, IMO, in terms of freedom from stutters/smoothness.   I assume a Gsync monitor should give the same result but let you using higher frame rates and still get the smoothness that comes from syncing to the refresh rate.

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by Noel