MSFS has never been RELIABLE

[Doug47 574]

@Chock,

You are making a VERY weak excuse for a gaming developer producing a game for a gaming console. 
 

We are NOT 30 years into the future. Tell me what current MSFS add-on airplane uses a ‘controller’ in real life? Big fat zero. 
 

Comw on guys.  This is getting embarrassing. The flight dynamics in the sim…sorry…game, must be horrifically bad for one to be able to ‘fly’ using a x-box controller. Absurd. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Ray Proudfoot
Removed quoted post

[Ray Proudfoot 8,947]

Someone raises their head above the parapet with what he feels are legitimate issues and is immediately put down with the usual retorts. Whether you agree with him or not he is entitled to his opinion and that should be respected.

For those complaining “oh no, not this again” your contribution amounts to less than zero since you’re not willing to discuss his issues in a polite manner.

There are no right and wrong opinions. Behave in a courteous way and treat others as you yourself would like to be treated.

[Tom Wright 438]

9 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

@Chock

Comw on guys.  This is getting embarrassing. The flight dynamics in the sim…sorry…game, must be horrifically bad for one to be able to ‘fly’ using a x-box controller. Absurd. 

But by your own logic, the flight dynamics in every other sim must be "horrifically bad" as well since being able to fly with an Xbox controller isn't unique to MSFS.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

Nothing MS is actually reliable the products are too big and over featured to ever be 100% reliable. Comes with the territory.

There is an old joke about MS versus Apple building a bicycle:

Apple Bicycle :  Expensive but looks nice, minor changes every year so people will know if you stuck with last years bike, pedals are wireless, does not have handlebars, basically functional but if the tyres go flat you need to replace the entire bike.

MS Bicycle: Suffers feature bloat, the need for an air conditioner and floats are questionable, the handle bars are fitted with a cockpit licenced from Airbus but most people use none of the options, if you try and pedal it pops up a window asking if you really want to pedal as pedalling can be dangerous.

[Doug47 574]

3 minutes ago, Tom Wright said:

But by your own logic, the flight dynamics in every other sim must be "horrifically bad" as well since being able to fly with an Xbox controller isn't unique to MSFS.

But nobody would honestly view it as a valid control mechanism for a simulator. 
The point was, people are now trying to make excuses for ASOBO going down this path by saying it’s really the ‘way of the future’.  
 

uh huh. 
 

[Chock 17,769]

40 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

@Chock,

You are making a VERY weak excuse for a gaming developer producing a game for a gaming console. 
 

We are NOT 30 years into the future. Tell me what current MSFS add-on airplane uses a ‘controller’ in real life? Big fat zero. 
 

Comw on guys.  This is getting embarrassing. The flight dynamics in the sim…sorry…game, must be horrifically bad for one to be able to ‘fly’ using a x-box controller. Absurd. 

I'm not making any excuse at all, I merely pointed out that you can use a mouse, and a keyboard with an XBox (and you can get hardware joystick controllers for an XBox too) and I daresay there will be more. My own T-Flight HOTAS controller that I use a lot of the time has a switch which can make it work on a PS3 for example. And in any case, you are aware that an XBox controller has not one, but two joystick controls on it are you not? They actually make quite a good controller for flight sim helicopters because of the fact that they effectively have two sticks in them which can replicate the cyclic and the collective pitch lever, which is more than most fancy flight sticks can do. Granted XBox sticks are small with not much long leverage, but then again they are controlled with the thumbs, so you can make pretty fine movements with them as anyone who has ever played a console racing game will confirm as they drift their Dodge Viper around a virtual racetrack, which I've tried to do on the real thing once at Caldwell Park with its real actual steering wheel etc and failed miserably lol.

And have you been in an Airbus? The amount of throw on the sidestick controllers is virtually zero; they operate off pressure rather than throw, so they have even less movement than a joypad stick and you have to use your left hand on the stick too when in the P1 seat, yet we don't see A320s crashing all the time, which is not something you can say about the B737 MAX with its traditional yoke controllers. The only thing which is absurd, is people refusing to accept the way the wind is blowing, with technology moving along apace and giving us more choice and more computing power for ever less cash, as evidenced not only by MSFS, but also the massive popularity of XPlane's mobile version. 

I'm not saying I am about to throw away my PC and my flight sticks, but the fact that I don't have to, because I have a cool flight sim which doesn't need a 3,000 quid PC run it on, and which I most definitely would not have had if it had not been for MS wanting to make a sim which runs on PCs as well as XBoxes, is a good thing, and it's only a bunch of old farts who think otherwise, and if they don't like it, then good.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Chock

[scotchegg 4,186]

3 hours ago, Doug47 said:

The flight dynamics in the sim…sorry…game, must be horrifically bad for one to be able to ‘fly’ using a x-box controller. Absurd. 

That doesn't make sense. The sim's flight dynamics / model have no relation to what device you use to manipulate cockpit controls.

Edited July 29, 2021 by scotchegg

[bean_sprout 1,201]

Gamepads actually make really good flight controllers and the big advantage is that they are wireless these days.  

I would get one except I have a ThrustMaster HOTAS and a Logitech Trackball which give me all the control I need.

Newbies that were raised on consoles will probably opt for the gamepad.

 

Cheers

bs

 

[marcg11 125]

For me every SU update has been worse then the last and this is the worse by far - Cant start at almost any airport in Europe - terrible color changes and yes better FPS at a sacrifice of LOD.   And yes I have nothing in my community folder and am using the default A320......Makes me wish for the days of FSX and no updates.....

[scotchegg 4,186]

1 hour ago, TASCHMANN said:

It is something quite different to venture an answer.

One answer I would venture is that for you, and several others who think in the same way, you are right. For others you are wrong. I understand that may not be satisfying, but there's nothing objectively, undeniably provable / disprovable to an absolute degree in what you said to get a satisfying 'right / wrong' conclusion.

Another answer would be MSFS gives a high degree of scaleability. Just because you can operate many controls with a controller, doesn't mean you can do it fully or well, and certainly doesn't mean you have to. But you're determined to judge the depth of the whole by the most simplistic methods the sim offers.

Another answer would be that you have consistently and regularly said that MSFS is a disappointment for you and I've lost count of how many times you've said 'this is definitely the last straw, I've definitely had enough now, I'm going back to XPlane'. But for some reason you don't. Genuine question; why not?

Edited July 29, 2021 by scotchegg

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

3 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

The answer I would venture is that for you, and several others who think in the same way, you are right. For others you are wrong. I understand that may not be satisfying, but there's nothing objectively, undeniably provable / disprovable to an absolute degree in what you said to get a satisfying 'right / wrong' conclusion.

Another answer would be MSFS gives a high degree of scaleability. Just because you can operate many controls with a controller, doesn't mean you can do it fully or well, and certainly doesn't mean you have to. But you're determined to judge the depth of the whole by the most simplistic methods the sim offers.

Another answer would be that you have consistently and regularly said that MSFS is a disappointment for you and I've lost count of how many times you've said 'this is definitely the last straw, I've definitely had enough now, I'm going back to XPlane'. But for some reason you don't. Genuine question; why not?

This … 100%

[Doug47 574]

11 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

That doesn't make sense. The sims flight dynamics / model have no relation to what device you used to manipulate cockpit controls.

That makes it less sense. 
 

Trying to defend MSFS users who are now convinced by MS that rather than using a yoke and pedals to mimic flying an airplane, a push button x-box controller is now on the same level. 
 

 

 

 

[Doug47 574]

34 minutes ago, Chock said:

 

MS wanting to make a sim which runs on PCs as well as XBoxes, is a good thing, and it's only a bunch of old farts who think otherwise, and if they don't like it, then good.

You’re missing the point.  They want it to run on x box for the games. And apply the same poor arcade style flight dynamics to both. 

Some yokes don’t even cut it, as far as ‘feeling’ the same. So I’m not sure how a x box controller with its baby joysticks and push buttons can. 
 

No wonder some say MSFS is nothing more then an arcade game for the gamers. Sad times for the true simulator users here. 
 

[rtodepart 761]

1 hour ago, Doug47 said:

must be horrifically bad for one to be able to ‘fly’ using a x-box controller. Absurd. 

Nothing wrong with using a “XBOX” like type of controls I Had flown many high end military drone aircraft with a similar type of controls both on a simulator and the real AC both behaviors are the same. God even The stick on a airbus and the stick on a consumer level drone both are the same idea. 

[pmb 5,137]

Wrong or right, I am happy with the upgrade. My fps went from 29 to 37 under exactly the same situation and settings. I don't see any noticeable visual degradations (even though tree LOD isn't as much impoved as I expected).

Even under VR (Reverb1) I can now use AA 100 base plus in game settings. Yes, there are irregularities at the periphery if I wildly shake my head back and forth, but I never did this before and I am not going to do it in the future, if for nothing else not to become motion sick.

There are a few niggles like the toolbar bug, which I am sure can be take care of. As far as I can think back, all other sims had such niggles after upgrades, too. I am content with what I got right now.

I couldn't care less if anyone is able to use the sim with a X-box controller or not. I use a hardware panel, mostly driven by SPAD.neXt, and this works. But if it's possible to use a controller that's absolutely fine with me as well.

And sorry, I don't see MSFS less reliable than the other sims, and I know what I am speaking about (with the possible exception of the upgrade process which should be reworked).

Kind regards, Michael