I would just like to add to my previous post that indeed whenever I use P3D, now the latest version which I purchased as a 1 month pro license for testing purposes, I get a better impression than before from it.

Usually I run P3D to beta test something. Sometimes a few versions in between are sufficient to make me notice performance improvements. This turn around it was a combination of interim updates that I hadn't had the chance to try but also my PC upgrade, which was long due and finally was possible ( Ryzen 5600x + RTX 3070 Ti + 32 GB RAM + 1TB nvme 2 SSD ).

I can now push settings to the higher ends and not suffer performance issues. Is it as good looking as MFS, specially taking into consideration that I only apply Orbx Global and Aerosoft Madeira X Evolution ? Of course not, BUT !, the visuals are really more than enough / good to please my requisites since I am much more concerned with a good experience from add-ons like FSLabs A319/20 and the PMDG 777-200 LR or even the freeware A2A P-40.

P3D is a LM modification of the original ESP product by MS. MS does operating systems and some hardware, a few applications and development environments, but their business is really not aviation technology. LM OTOH is a reference in aviation and associated technology, through a vast spectrum of classes from civil to high-end military, employs a load of aeronautical engineers, systems engineers and specialists, test pilots, ... Who, better tha LM could evaluate and maintain a desktop flight simulator that can actually be used for RW trainning ? Who, better than LM can have a critic sense and evaluate the qualities of such a flight simulation platform ?

So, it's like asking if a desktop flightsim built by Boeing, Frasca, CAE, ... will have a future ... For sure it'll have, irrespective of mass use given to other game-oriented platforms.

I use P3D, pretty much like any other desktop flight simulator I've been using since decades as a game. I play it pretending to operate an airliner, a GA... whatever... Other use it for flight trainning and proficiency in areas where it can be valuable. Military use it in trainning sessions, ... Of course future is something Prepar3D will have  !

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by jcomm

11 hours ago, V1ROTA7E said:

with better graphics and performance, why would one stay with P3D?

A lot of wisdom has been written in this thread. So, I wouldn't like to rewrite anything with my own words.
But I find this question to be a good opportunity to touch one aspect which seems not to have been stressed enough.

There is an old saying 'Gentlemen do not talk about money'. Let me break this rule here in a short reply.
The fact that I am really happy with my Prepar3Dv5 now is certainly due to the many years of experience I have in the sim and its current stability.
But also, if not first of all, because of the world I have built in it: texture packs, sceneries, airports, traffic, ground services, FSUIPC, weather software and of course the aircraft (in the plural sense).
I don't use freeware (except for AI traffic). I have paid A LOT for all those. I am aware there are people with very different financial abilities, some of whom may afford to buy anything anytime.
But many of us, including myself, have some kind of budget they can/want to spend on flightsimming. As vast majority of P3D addons cannot be installed in MSFS, you get the picture.
I am currently not able to start reinvesting in my hobby, when already spending too much (sorry, wife).

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by Rafal

10 hours ago, JNS said:

We may not as long as we have a bunch of people almost "hoping" for the demise of P3D and XP....and the developers and retailers dropping all interest in P3D.

I can't imagine that anyone is 'actively' hoping for P3D or XP(whatever) to have their demise.  Why?  If one is no longer interested, they won't hit the start button. It only takes that.  What I feel would indeed be the demise, would be if users actually could see for themselves, no further interest or updates from the owners and developers of the sim (any sim) and no seemingly further interest to develop for (any sim) from 3rd P's.  That is what I think would be the death blow to current users of any sim, not merely what is discussed on this forum.  My take, anyway.

Rafal, i agree i have spent years and years  in time and money investing in P3D, i cant just drop it , just hope LM and the devs come back ans show us some love !

54 minutes ago, Rafal said:

But many of us, including myself, have some kind of budget they can/want to spend on flightsimming.

I completely understand that. Aside from computer upgrades, I'm becoming less willing to shell out cash for addons anymore. P3D had/has a standard that is expected to be lived up to, otherwise the developer won't get business. We're a very curated group of simmers that take simming fairly seriously, hence being on the Avsim forum. Now, with MSFS being so new, and marketed towards everyone, we're seeing a bunch of really, really terrible products enter the payware world. This sort of "cash grab" tactic from developers is draining confidence of the viability of MSFS to be a flight simulator to the caliber we expect. That said, there is a whole new era of Freeware that is high quality/payware quality entering the sim world. One that, I'm afraid FSX and P3D did not have to this extent. That was always an X Plane thing. I think the big purchases that we're used to in P3D and FSX (ORBX being a huge one) will not be necessary in MSFS anymore due to the lights, vectors, and texture streaming. A lot of what we paid for is now native to the sim (whether we like it or not, Weather being a big one). All things considered, I think that over the lifteime of MSFS as a simulator, dollar for dollar, I think that we'll be spending less money in that sim as compared to what we've had to buy in the past to make the sim look, perform and feel realistic. 

Quick anecdote:

I probably spent around $1000 in GTA 5 buying "shark cards." This allowed me, in game, to get all sorts of addons to enhance the experience. But, I haven't touched that game in 3 years. I don't see it as a waste of money, though. For the time, I enjoyed the game immensely, but simply outgrew it when better things came along. I got a good 5 years of enjoyment out of it. That works out to roughly $200/year. Now, with flight simming, that number is probably large, by a pretty wide margin, but my point remains. I enjoyed/enjoy (still use the PMDG products in P3D), but when I'm done with it, I won't feel like I lost anything.

i dont know about gamimg, simmimg is all i have ever done , but get your point v1rot , p3D users feeling a little left out right now i get get fully iam one of them , just hope the people who are in charge come back to us, ofcourse some of them never left !

2 hours ago, Sesquashtoo said:

I can't imagine that anyone is 'actively' hoping for P3D or XP(whatever) to have their demise.  Why?  If one is no longer interested, they won't hit the start button. It only takes that.  What I feel would indeed be the demise, would be if users actually could see for themselves, no further interest or updates from the owners and developers of the sim (any sim) and no seemingly further interest to develop for (any sim) from 3rd P's.  That is what I think would be the death blow to current users of any sim, not merely what is discussed on this forum.  My take, anyway.

Exactly why recently I have been making new installs (pretty well loaded) of P3D, XP, and even AF FS2, so that I can lock those down, back them up, and at least have something for a worst-case scenario as you suggest.  I don't have a lot of confidence in MSFS.  Sometimes I am surprised that people here have been as tolerant as they have of the update messes.  It has definitely kept me from installing it for a while longer. And I'm not so sure it will ever be what serious simmers really want and have expected from it. Hope I am wrong and that MS is in for the long haul.  Revenue will probably determine that. If the casual X-Boxers get bored, then all bets are off.

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by JNS

1 hour ago, JNS said:

Exactly why recently I have been making new installs (pretty well loaded) of P3D, XP, and even AF FS2, so that I can lock those down, back them up, and at least have something for a worst-case scenario as you suggest.  I don't have a lot of confidence in MSFS.  Sometimes I am surprised that people here have been as tolerant as they have of the update messes.  It has definitely kept me from installing it for a while longer. And I'm not so sure it will ever be what serious simmers really want and have expected from it. Hope I am wrong and that MS is in for the long haul.  Revenue will probably determine that. If the casual X-Boxers get bored, then all bets are off.

Well,  JNS, as far as MSFS on the scene,  I just came minutes ago, from a flight from flying over my home in the Cessna C172 Amphibian, and not ONLY could I fly over my OWN house...after leaving my FBO,  (with using MSFS-G) if you discern what I mean by that...and then with using the 'G' version....I flew over the highways, cities', towns, and right to Stoney Lake, (Near Lakefield, Ontario) of which my sister and brother-in-law have a huge A-Frame just opposite Salmon Island.  I actually,...with my 'G' version running and supplying the eye-candy...saw...LITERALLY, every major visual 'ping' on the way to my sister's place.   It was all there...car dealerships,  R.V. and boat dealerships...WITH,  R.V's (shapes). showing in the parking lots, WITH boats (shapes) in the front yard of the marine dealership...restaurant roofs that I actually stop to eat, when taking the fancy....gas stations....round-abouts...and then....WOW....in flying up the country access road being used as my VFR navigation....I flew over my sister's roof at their lakeside property on a 30 foot bluff overlooking Stoney Lake,...and THERE was the shed that my brother-in-law had put up near their vegetable garden, in their back yard...the yard that faces away from the lake, and where you'd drive into...it was there...in 'G'!!!!

I then did a fly over out over Stoney Lake, flew over the cottage at the west end of Salmon Island...flew over the second smaller island to the east...with its own actual smaller cottage, and then came into a water landing between my sister's front of their lakeside home up on the bluff, and Salmon Island. All there....simply jaw-dropping,  mind blowing,  REALLY THERE!!!!!  amazing.   Stoney Lake's water surface even had that floating white representation of their twin 'H' docks...and I knew exactly that I had just docked across from where their 16 foot Pontoon Boat sits.  My wife (virtual) got out onto the right pontoon and threw Bev the line...and we were pulled in snug to their dock representation. I then turned off the prop...shut down...and 5 minutes later were standing on the boat 'deck' we know so well in real life.   NO other sim, on the planet, could have given me that virtual real-life visual from flying over my own home...seeing my Red Maple and 12x12 foot garden shed in the back...to actually flying over my own sister and bro's house...over Salmon Island as it exactly looks in real life, with the two cottages on the east and west end...and then (wow...) to taxi up to the 'floating' white dock' which looked exactly like their twin H docks...because 'G' had captured them in one of their terrain fly overs....   No other sim can give me this...so...bringing it back to relative sims....this is...a great 'draw' to any user of any sim, other than MSFS...a truly virtual world reality, and not synthetic texture representations of your x/y.    I use all the three big players to date...but I have to tell you the truth...since MSFS's SU6 release...I haven't flown much else, honestly.   Not when I can fly from my own rooftop...to (with 'G') anywhere else I have driven to,  ridden to on my motorcycle...and can SEE...and KNOW exactly where I am, and what I am flying over 1,800 below me...      I think what I have just typed, will be a tremendous draw to users of other sims....unless...they are only into cockpit procedures.  Then of course, nothing below the wing matters,  other than trying to avoid.....'buying the farm'....

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by Sesquashtoo

1 hour ago, Sesquashtoo said:

Well,  JNS, as far as MSFS on the scene,  I just came minutes ago, from a flight from flying over my home in the Cessna C172 Amphibian, and not ONLY could I fly over my OWN house...after leaving my FBO,  (with using MSFS-G) if you discern what I mean by that...and then with using the 'G' version....I flew over the highways, cities', towns, and right to Stoney Lake, (Near Lakefield, Ontario) of which my sister and brother-in-law have a huge A-Frame just opposite Salmon Island.  I actually,...with my 'G' version running and supplying the eye-candy...saw...LITERALLY, every major visual 'ping' on the way to my sister's place.   It - -

-

-

procedures.  Then of course, nothing below the wing matters,  other than trying to avoid.....'buying the farm'....

Well, you certainly make a convincing argument for MSFS.  I know I will install it, I'm just for waiting for the dust to clear more.  Basically, after the current situation...i.e. .when (it seems) after every other update, things are a mess.  I hope Asobo/MS can get their act together a little bit better.  I'll get the other sims installed first.  I'm thinking of making MSFS installation my New Years' resolution....if things are looking better. I've been in simming since about 1990 so I should know to be patient with new products, but I think age is fighting me on that. 🙂

Jeff

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by JNS

1 hour ago, Sesquashtoo said:

Well,  JNS, as far as MSFS on the scene,  I just came minutes ago, from a flight from flying over my home in the Cessna C172 Amphibian, and not ONLY could I fly over my OWN house...after leaving my FBO,  (with using MSFS-G) if you discern what I mean by that...and then with using the 'G' version....I flew over the highways, cities', towns, and right to Stoney Lake, (Near Lakefield, Ontario) of which my sister and brother-in-law have a huge A-Frame just opposite Salmon Island.  I actually,...with my 'G' version running and supplying the eye-candy...saw...LITERALLY, every major visual 'ping' on the way to my sister's place.   It was all there...car dealerships,  R.V. and boat dealerships...WITH,  R.V's (shapes). showing in the parking lots, WITH boats (shapes) in the front yard of the marine dealership...restaurant roofs that I actually stop to eat, when taking the fancy....gas stations....round-abouts...and then....WOW....in flying up the country access road being used as my VFR navigation....I flew over my sister's roof at their lakeside property on a 30 foot bluff overlooking Stoney Lake,...and THERE was the shed that my brother-in-law had put up near their vegetable garden, in their back yard...the yard that faces away from the lake, and where you'd drive into...it was there...in 'G'!!!!

I then did a fly over out over Stoney Lake, flew over the cottage at the west end of Salmon Island...flew over the second smaller island to the east...with its own actual smaller cottage, and then came into a water landing between my sister's front of their lakeside home up on the bluff, and Salmon Island. All there....simply jaw-dropping,  mind blowing,  REALLY THERE!!!!!  amazing.   Stoney Lake's water surface even had that floating white representation of their twin 'H' docks...and I knew exactly that I had just docked across from where their 16 foot Pontoon Boat sits.  My wife (virtual) got out onto the right pontoon and threw Bev the line...and we were pulled in snug to their dock representation. I then turned off the prop...shut down...and 5 minutes later were standing on the boat 'deck' we know so well in real life.   NO other sim, on the planet, could have given me that virtual real-life visual from flying over my own home...seeing my Red Maple and 12x12 foot garden shed in the back...to actually flying over my own sister and bro's house...over Salmon Island as it exactly looks in real life, with the two cottages on the east and west end...and then (wow...) to taxi up to the 'floating' white dock' which looked exactly like their twin H docks...because 'G' had captured them in one of their terrain fly overs....   No other sim can give me this...so...bringing it back to relative sims....this is...a great 'draw' to any user of any sim, other than MSFS...a truly virtual world reality, and not synthetic texture representations of your x/y.    I use all the three big players to date...but I have to tell you the truth...since MSFS's SU6 release...I haven't flown much else, honestly.   Not when I can fly from my own rooftop...to (with 'G') anywhere else I have driven to,  ridden to on my motorcycle...and can SEE...and KNOW exactly where I am, and what I am flying over 1,800 below me...      I think what I have just typed, will be a tremendous draw to users of other sims....unless...they are only into cockpit procedures.  Then of course, nothing below the wing matters,  other than trying to avoid.....'buying the farm'....

I think this somewhat demonstrates the difference in priorities for different users though. Sure I would love to fly over my house in a Cessna in a flight sim - but I've already done that in the Real World in a real Aircraft!

I think P3D still has life in in it the quality of aircraft available for it. I've always been a flight simmer so as to fly the aircraft that I will most likely never have the opportunity to fly for real like the MD80 and 747-400. For the latter I appreciate being able to do long flights with relatively-assured stability. I can imagine in a few years I will be having similar experiences to you when flying a well-modeled simulation of one of my favoured jetliners. But until that happens I'm more than happy to take a graphical hit with P3D.

I think what the other sim offers graphically is nothing short of revolutionary, but there is always room for improvement particularly when one is looking for a more in-depth experience from their flight simming which I get the impression MS/Asobo have yet to offer at a sufficiently convincing level. And stability is a big concern if you want to fly long haul - nobody wants to fly for 6+ hours only to have a CTD before landing.

So as I think has been repeated ad nauseam it comes down to taste and priorities. P3D has its strengths, the other sims have theirs. I don't see that changing for now.

When the Pandemic is less of an issue I hope to be able to do more VFR flying in the real world and potentially finish off my PPL, I don't think even the other sim can quite beat the feeling of VFR flying in the flesh!

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by SimeonWilbury

Keep this thread going for another 6 months and the O/P will have the answer.

1 hour ago, JNS said:

Well, you certainly make a convincing argument for MSFS.  I know I will install it, I'm just for waiting for the dust to clear more.  Basically, after the current situation...i.e. .when (it seems) after every other update, things are a mess.  I hope Asobo/MS can get their act together a little bit better.  I'll get the other sims installed first.  I'm thinking of making MSFS installation my New Years' resolution....if things are looking better. I've been in simming since about 1990 so I should know to be patient with new products, but I think age is fighting me on that. 🙂

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff!

I have what I think is a time 'critical' suggestion.  I would go like YESTERDAY, to www.flightsim.to  and download the 'G' maps app.  I'd have the latest copy (if you go to the supplied link by the Dev...on that page, you will indeed get the latest (I use that...) which is tagged for the 20th of this month.   I certainly would have that on my own system hard drive, because I think...it will be removed from the site at ANY time....just sayin'....  You may never wish to have MSFS-G running, but if you wish to experience what I related in my narrative, it is required.  'G' to date, is the most up to date, and the most visually accurate mapping, and is actually two or three step up's in clarity (detail) over 'B' at the moment.  Running MSFS-G is like having gotten a new, total X. version of the sim...  Just sayin....  In a nut shell, it is a visually FABULOUS flight simming experience!

Post Edit: Another suggestion..in my Post Edit 2, I have supplied the actual site created by the Dev and where he posts his latest version of this great, great, 3rP App.  I'd capture it for yourself and put it into a Desktop TEXT file. Keep safe...:)

Mitch

Post Edit...you and I can take this to the proper forum...for the guys here, are showing great hold-back for to kick us off this thread....so we should both I guess, appreciate that...or at least, myself!  Cheers!

Post Edit 2:   Here it is for anybody reading this and interested in the content...:

https://github.com/derekhe/msfs2020-google-map/releases

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by Sesquashtoo

45 minutes ago, SimeonWilbury said:

I think this somewhat demonstrates the difference in priorities for different users though. Sure I would love to fly over my house in a Cessna in a flight sim - but I've already done that in the Real World in a real Aircraft!

I think P3D still has life in in it the quality of aircraft available for it. I've always been a flight simmer so as to fly the aircraft that I will most likely never have the opportunity to fly for real like the MD80 and 747-400. For the latter I appreciate being able to do long flights with relatively-assured stability. I can imagine in a few years I will be having similar experiences to you when flying a well-modeled simulation of one of my favoured jetliners. But until that happens I'm more than happy to take a graphical hit with P3D.

I think what the other sim offers graphically is nothing short of revolutionary, but there is always room for improvement particularly when one is looking for a more in-depth experience from their flight simming which I get the impression MS/Asobo have yet to offer at a sufficiently convincing level. And stability is a big concern if you want to fly long haul - nobody wants to fly for 6+ hours only to have a CTD before landing.

So as I think has been repeated ad nauseam it comes down to taste and priorities. P3D has its strengths, the other sims have theirs. I don't see that changing for now.

When the Pandemic is less of an issue I hope to be able to do more VFR flying in the real world and potentially finish off my PPL, I don't think even the other sim can quite beat the feeling of VFR flying in the flesh!

All true all said.  I concur...there's room for everybody at the table...right!

42 minutes ago, Sesquashtoo said:

 

Hi Jeff!

I have what I think is a time 'critical' suggestion.  I would go like YESTERDAY, to www.flightsim.to  and download the 'G' maps app.  I'd have the latest copy (if you go to the supplied link by the Dev...on that page, you will indeed get the latest (I use that...) which is tagged for the 20th of this month.   I certainly would have that on my own system hard drive, because I think...it will be removed from the site at ANY time....just sayin'....  You may never wish to have MSFS-G running, but if you wish to experience what I related in my narrative, it is required.  'G' to date, is the most up to date, and the most visually accurate mapping, and is actually two or three step up's in clarity (detail) over 'B' at the moment.  Running MSFS-G is like having gotten a new, total X. version of the sim...  Just sayin....  In a nut shell, it is a visually FABULOUS flight simming experience!

Post Edit: Another suggestion..in my Post Edit 2, I have supplied the actual site created by the Dev and where he posts his latest version of this great, great, 3rP App.  I'd capture it for yourself and put it into a Desktop TEXT file. Keep safe...:)

Mitch

Post Edit...you and I can take this to the proper forum...for the guys here, are showing great hold-back for to kick us off this thread....so we should both I guess, appreciate that...or at least, myself!  Cheers!

Post Edit 2:   Here it is for anybody reading this and interested in the content...:

https://github.com/derekhe/msfs2020-google-map/releases

Thanks for the suggestion, 

8 hours ago, Sesquashtoo said:

 

Hi Jeff!

I have what I think is a time 'critical' suggestion.  I would go like YESTERDAY, to www.flightsim.to  and download the 'G' maps app.  I'd have the latest copy (if you go to the supplied link by the Dev...on that page, you will indeed get the latest (I use that...) which is tagged for the 20th of this month.   I certainly would have that on my own system hard drive, because I think...it will be removed from the site at ANY time....just sayin'....  You may never wish to have MSFS-G running, but if you wish to experience what I related in my narrative, it is required.  'G' to date, is the most up to date, and the most visually accurate mapping, and is actually two or three step up's in clarity (detail) over 'B' at the moment.  Running MSFS-G is like having gotten a new, total X. version of the sim...  Just sayin....  In a nut shell, it is a visually FABULOUS flight simming experience!

Post Edit: Another suggestion..in my Post Edit 2, I have supplied the actual site created by the Dev and where he posts his latest version of this great, great, 3rP App.  I'd capture it for yourself and put it into a Desktop TEXT file. Keep safe...:)

Mitch

Post Edit...you and I can take this to the proper forum...for the guys here, are showing great hold-back for to kick us off this thread....so we should both I guess, appreciate that...or at least, myself!  Cheers!

Post Edit 2:   Here it is for anybody reading this and interested in the content...:

https://github.com/derekhe/msfs2020-google-map/releases

One thing : several develop for MSFS have also made the surroundings in PR quality and it blends in with the B terrain. As the G terrain is colored slightly different you might see those places stand out in he surroundings.