6 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

- “real” is an indefensible argument and provides no measurable thesis. There are no “real” planes in any flight simulator.

- MSFS has the DC-6. So there is a complex airliner. Zero of the complex airliners (737, 777, A320, etc) have been developed in under 2 years for any sim.

-The WT G1000nxi is the only study level version of the most popular GA avionics suite.

-It’s 2022, multi monitor is dead and pointless. Hardcore is VR. Get an Varejo Aero and experience what all commercial and military is pushing toward for “realism”. Fake mismatched inaccurate home cockpits are for hobbyist and gamers who like buttons.  

-AI is for gamers. Hardcore is Vatsim/IVAO. MSFS is too hardcore to worry about gamer AI.

-No sim has seamless accurate global weather.  So if that’s the bar than no hardcore simulation exists.

-Again, VATSIM/IVAO is for hardcore simmers.  Push button ATC like I am using a customer service phone menu is for gamers. 

-If I can add fuel with a slider in any sim it’s not hardcore. I have never ever seen a pilot enter fuel and the plane magically filled up with a bounce.  Magic fuel is for gamers so I guess we are all gamers!

Always a good time to play my flight sim is better (bigger?) than your flight sim.

Why don’t we all start a kickstarter, hire a team of university level academic aviators and do some double blind experiments to settle all the big arguments. 

It’s all in good fun. And for the most part I enjoy the banter and hope you all do as well. It would be fun to have a beer and discuss flight sims with some of you passionate people. A lot more fun than the ugly realities of all the worlds problems.

Looking at the development list multi monitor support has been asked for by quiet many people. I am one of them. And VR in commercial training facilities is just an extra to their real size flightsims which have knobs, switches , levers etc like in reality. I haven’t seen any VR in the KLM level D flightsims at Schiphol last year I was there. And they “feel” very real just like their real world counterparts according to a trainer I spoke…

That you are a VR fan and like Vatsim is fine….

Totally agree with your last part : have fun ! 
It’s all about you and having a good time ….😄

4 hours ago, GSalden said:

I haven’t seen any VR in the KLM level D flightsims at Schiphol last year I was there.

they will as soon as we will all only travel and spend our vacations in VR anymore, the first airlines are already sending their A380s, B747s etc. to the scrapyard. they save and can buy lots of VR headsets instead.

And you Gerard, I am afraid you are wasting your valuable time here arguing.  If I had such a nice cockpit, I wouldn't be here 😊, I have to make do with my VR headset, which is less comfortable, but more flexible but since you fly B737 exclusively, that doesn't matter to you. there can be no doubt that setting up and maintaining such a complex device with several different simulators requires substantial amounts of Guilders 😊, time, space, devotion and knowledge, something most around here do not have or do not want to sacrifice, for whatever reason. If I had such a wonderful cockpit I would probably only frequent the cockpit builders forums. I think you can consider yourself lucky as the Asobo team said in their last Q&A twitch that multi-monitor support is coming, i thought together with their next direct-x 12 update.

re.Prosim: I remember when everybody only mentioned project magenta, are they still around? why did you choose Prosim instead?

in closing: bedankt for taking the time to participate and contribute to this thread which will have died in 12 hours at the latest, as soon as Aurora Australis has released.

when I watched some of your youtubes and wished it was me sitting there, I never thought for a second whether MSFS was focusing on hard core simulators or what not, but how many hours of pure pleasure that cockpit has given you. and will even more so with the constant improvements we can expect from MSFS.

tot ziens.

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by turbomax

I know it has been said before but MS bought WT. MS.....bought.....WT! And they've put them to good use too. The work WT has done has pushed a lot of the MSFS GA planes to be the most advanced default modules you can find in any consumer market sim. WT is then going to take aim at the default airliners and they're going to be the most advanced default airliners on the market.

You don't cater to the casual market by introducing relief and cloud turbulence (although the latter is bugged at the moment) MSFS is the first sim the REALLY made me take the weather into account when prepping and during flight. Icing wasn't just introduced for eye candy. Don't react to it and you will have a very bad day!

Everything Asobo has done and is planning has pointed to them making this sim the most realistic one available to consumers. Seeing anything else just reeks of snobbery to me.

Attractive women (insert your own preference here) to avsimmer sitting next to her: so, what do you for fun?

Avsimmer: I am hardcore flightsimmer!

Result: she's out the door so fast, she'd make Usain Bolt jealous.

Lady of the night to simmer: "Hey baby, fancy a good time?"

Simmer: "Hell yeah! So you're into flight simming too?"

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

I know it has been said before but MS bought WT. MS.....bought.....WT! And they've put them to good use too. The work WT has done has pushed a lot of the MSFS GA planes to be the most advanced default modules you can find in any consumer market sim. WT is then going to take aim at the default airliners and they're going to be the most advanced default airliners on the market.

You don't cater to the casual market by introducing relief and cloud turbulence (although the latter is bugged at the moment) MSFS is the first sim the REALLY made me take the weather into account when prepping and during flight. Icing wasn't just introduced for eye candy. Don't react to it and you will have a very bad day!

Everything Asobo has done and is planning has pointed to them making this sim the most realistic one available to consumers. Seeing anything else just reeks of snobbery to me.

I wonder on occasion if Asobo aren't playing a clever game here. Get M$ to bankroll the development of a sim that will have mass gamer appeal, and slip the serious bits in under the bonnet for the more...(dare I say it?)...hardcore crowd.

3 hours ago, turbomax said:

they will as soon as we will all only travel and spend our vacations in VR anymore, the first airlines are already sending their A380s, B747s etc. to the scrapyard. they save and can buy lots of VR headsets instead.

And you Gerard, I am afraid you are wasting your valuable time here arguing.  If I had such a nice cockpit, I wouldn't be here 😊, I have to make do with my VR headset, which is less comfortable, but more flexible but since you fly B737 exclusively, that doesn't matter to you. there can be no doubt that setting up and maintaining such a complex device with several different simulators requires substantial amounts of Guilders 😊, time, space, devotion and knowledge, something most around here do not have or do not want to sacrifice, for whatever reason. If I had such a wonderful cockpit I would probably only frequent the cockpit builders forums. I think you can consider yourself lucky as the Asobo team said in their last Q&A twitch that multi-monitor support is coming, i thought together with their next direct-x 12 update.

re.Prosim: I remember when everybody only mentioned project magenta, are they still around? why did you choose Prosim instead?

in closing: bedankt for taking the time to participate and contribute to this thread which will have died in 12 hours at the latest, as soon as Aurora Australis has released.

when I watched some of your youtubes and wished it was me sitting there, I never thought for a second whether MSFS was focusing on hard core simulators or what not, but how many hours of pure pleasure that cockpit has given you. and will even more so with the constant improvements we can expect from MSFS.

tot ziens.

It all comes down to what you are happy with 😄

Years before I switched to Prosim I used Project Magenta. Very nice for that era.

But they used a modified default 737/777/747 flight model and when Prosim evolved from freeware to payware I started looking at that. All hardware drivers are in Prosim so compatible with all cockpit hardware.

Btw : between Project Magenta and Prosim I used Flight1 737 cockpit builders edition.

If you are ever in the Rotterdam neighborhood let me know and you are welcome to fly around ….

 

13 minutes ago, GSalden said:

If you are ever in the Rotterdam neighborhood let me know and you are welcome to fly around ….

thanks very much for your very kind offer, appreciate it but I shouldn't, I might high jack it and not let you have it back 😊. The closest I ever got to Rotterdam was at a Flightsim exhibition event at the Amsterdam Airport Museum, some 20 years ago I guess 😊.

1) how much does Prosim software for the B737 cost, they don't show it on their website,

2) and do they also control the MSFS autopilot?

3) are you using it it with the default B787 until PMDG?

4) and why did you switch from video projector to 2 x flat screen TVs? I suppose once we have multi-monitor support you will upgrade to 4 TVs, one for each window?

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by turbomax

44 minutes ago, Holdit said:

Simmer: "Hell yeah! So you're into flight simming too?"

I am flexible, don't care with or without underpants, captains head would be nice, but not a must, as long as she is serious and hard core, meaning non VFR, but precision IFR approaches only, and some realistic p-factor, for the asymmetric thrust.

more details for the serious twin prop hard core simmer:

Flying Light Twins Safely

https://secureservercdn.net/45.40.145.201/083.77f.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/FAA-P-8740-66-Flying-Twinshi-res-branded-1.pdf

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by turbomax

1 hour ago, Holdit said:

I wonder on occasion if Asobo aren't playing a clever game here. Get M$ to bankroll the development of a sim that will have mass gamer appeal, and slip the serious bits in under the bonnet for the more...(dare I say it?)...hardcore crowd.

I think it's important to point out that Jorg represents Microsoft.  Ultimately, Jorg reports to Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft.  It was Jorg who convinced the executive of Microsoft, including  convincing  Satya Nadella I believe, to come out with MSFS. Thus, Microsoft's vision for MSFS is Jorg's vision for MSFS.

Jorg was definitely involved with hiring Working Title, since Microsoft is paying the bills for Working Title. So when you watch the Twitch Q&A, or you read about Jorg's interviews, Jorg's vision has always been to make MSFS the most realistic and advanced flight simulator out there. In general, Jorg seems to want MSFS to cater to the "hard core" flight simmer market, based on what I have heard him say at the Twitch Q&As, and his other interviews in the past.

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

Can a Hardcore forum user help out a simple guy, there's a post here I hoped would help that says

" mouse over their name in the upper-left corner of the offending forum post.   A popup window will appear, and in the middle of the bottom line there's an option to "ignore Wankers "  Click on that, and you will have "plonked" him."

I tried this and I do get a pop-up but no Ignore option, any help appreciated (Didnt think it warranted starting a thread)

2 hours ago, turbomax said:

thanks very much for your very kind offer, appreciate it but I shouldn't, I might high jack it and not let you have it back 😊. The closest I ever got to Rotterdam was at a Flightsim exhibition event at the Amsterdam Airport Museum, some 20 years ago I guess 😊.

1) how much does Prosim software for the B737 cost, they don't show it on their website,

2) and do they also control the MSFS autopilot?

3) are you using it it with the default B787 until PMDG?

4) and why did you switch from video projector to 2 x flat screen TVs? I suppose once we have multi-monitor support you will upgrade to 4 TVs, one for each window?

LOL … You would be flying right out of the window 🛫

1 look here : https://prosim-ar.com/shop/

2 Prosim is running outside MSFS, only the model runs inside MSFS

3 Prosim has their own flightmodel

4 The projectors were 2K and I found it not sharp enough ( used 2x 2K projectors in 2003-2006 with the Project Magenta 747 and a first primitive self built cockpit .

Now I have 2x 4K 43” as one wide front view and 1x 4K 55” as left view. I have a 2/3 real cockpit so this will be it. FOV : -90  -  +60 …

It is not an exact copy of the 737 NG by far but as I am sitting inside the cockpit with the sound around me + Buttkicker I am getting a very good immersion….

Compare that to 2003 : this is at the Aviodrome at Schiphol ( FsWeekend) . The PSS 747 with self made cockpit panels ( default ones modified )

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by GSalden

4 minutes ago, GSalden said:

2 Prosim is running outside MSFS, only the model runs inside MSFS

3 Prosim has their own flightmodel

I don't get it, if they run their own flight model, they would also have to drive the MSFS autopilot and feed the aircraft's position (lat-long-alt-hdg) back into MSFS, like moving the aicraft around similar to SLEW mode? 

1.500$ for the home entertainment market seems overpriced to me, drawing those instruments is not rocket science, they are included "free" in AxisAndOhs, I hope I am missing something here. anyway, as soon as PMDG  and multi monitor become available, plus the feature to drag any instruments out into a separate panel window as we had in P3D, all that should be available for free?

considering the various limitations in MSFS currently for home cockpit builders, why did you switch to MSFS then without the PMDG available yet, was it purely for the improved graphics?

4 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Attractive women (insert your own preference here) to avsimmer sitting next to her: so, what do you for fun?

Avsimmer: I am hardcore flightsimmer!

Result: she's out the door so fast, she'd make Usain Bolt jealous.

 

Is that before or after she see your multi-monitor setup and home cockpit...?

18 minutes ago, turbomax said:

I don't get it, if they run their own flight model, they would also have to drive the MSFS autopilot and feed the aircraft's position (lat-long-alt-hdg) back into MSFS, like moving the aicraft around similar to SLEW mode? 

1.500$ for the home entertainment market seems overpriced to me, drawing those instruments is not rocket science, they are included "free" in AxisAndOhs, I hope I am missing something here. anyway, as soon as PMDG  and multi monitor become available, plus the feature to drag any instruments out into a separate panel window as we had in P3D, all that should be available for free?

considering the various limitations in MSFS currently for home cockpit builders, why did you switch to MSFS then without the PMDG available yet, was it purely for the improved graphics?

There is much more to Prosim then drawing instruments …. 😃

From the online Instructor Station to hardware support for all cockpit hardware developers like CpFlight , OpenCockpits and many others.

All features can be tested and programmed. This goes way beyond what PMDG does,

Just take a look here :https://prosim-ar.com/entertainment/

And here : https://prosim-ar.com/customers/flightschool/  ( see the dropdown list )

EASA FTD 1 & FNPT II / FAA Level 4 & 5 Certified 

But as I started many years with the PSS 747 , PM and F1 737 CBE the PMDG is a very good plane to use for your own home cockpit.

Even a curtain around you and your setup can give a “inside the cockpit” feeling .

Tomorrow I am going to fly to Ajaccio Corsica and do the rw 20 RNAV approach manually 😎.  A challenge but oh so nice to go,

And … with the great scenery / atmosphere from MSFS …