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abrams_tank

MSFS focusing for the hard core simmer market, not X-Box!

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So there is this silly theory going around that MSFS's priority is for X-Box, rather than the hard core flight simmer market on PC.  The X-Box theory has always been a strange one for me, since time and time again, I only see Microsoft/Asobo spending resources and time on making MSFS more catered towards the hard core flight simmer market (ie. most of us here on Avsim probably fall in the hard core flight simmer market).  One clear and undeniable indication of this is when they hired Working Title.  As you know, the majority of X-Box users are likely casual flight simmers.  Thus, the default G1000 is more than suffice for X-Box simmers.  The work that Working Title does is probably of little value to most X-Box users of MSFS.  Don't forget that Working Title costs Microsoft money.  Microsoft has to pay for their salary, possibly pay for expenditures on the equipment Working Title uses, and possibly pay for reimbursements for any travel that Working Title does for their work related to MSFS.  If you were a CEO and the X-Box market is your sole priority, you're just wasting money on Working Title and you would be a bad CEO.  Also, if my memory is correct, improvements were made to how aircraft behave on the ground to make it more realistic, in one of the updates from last year, not something that most casual X-Box simmers value.  

Now in the Twitch Q&A yesterday, Seb went over the upcoming changes to propeller physics in MSFS:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1276781184?t=00h28m52s

To quote FSElite on the changes being made: "Seb said that they have implemented new propeller effects in the aircraft. This native method includes P-factor, torque and more that is actually simulated. Feathering is now fully implemented with the propellers."   Just watch the part on propeller physics in the Twitch Q&A yourself, because the changes coming are amazing, IMO.  The changes to prop behavior and airflow is totally not needed by the casual MSFS users of X-Box, it's just a waste of time and money.

Time and time again, when I look at the features being added, and the time & money Microsoft/Asobo is spending on, it's features and changes geared towards the hard core flight sim market.  Microsoft is not stupid.  They know that X-Box users of MSFS are very casual and will get bored of MSFS after a few months.  The long term spenders in MSFS has always been the hard core flight sim market and that's what their focus has been on, given the changes/features they keep making to MSFS.  

Edited by abrams_tank
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The prop changes will, ofc, be welcomed, but so far, and they say the last SU made them active in the sim, there are no apparent effects.

All of the tests I've ran show the exact same tie to, for instance, the good-old "throttling" on the prop torque formula, namely:

> The roll effect is at its maximum at zero airspeed. It decreases linearly with airspeed (TAS) and becomes zero at flaps_up_stall_speed (TAS) from [reference Speeds] multiplied by 1.5. The effect remains zero above that speed.

Maybe they'll change this... but it's a very basic starting point for prop physics simulation, and there's a LOT more to model in that area...


 

 

 

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Absolutely agree. Also I think that the pace at which the sim is evolving is mindboggling compared with everything we had before.

Gliders and helicopters and a study level 737 in year two? Two-and-a-half maybe? Wow.

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well,

I’m looking forward to the imminent Australian WU7 - which will be thoroughly enjoyed on both my fairly good PC & Xbox SX systems…

& future Sim Updates will be applicable to both systems as well…

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As I understand from the Dev Q&A, those new prop physics are also a kind of study and preparation for the upcoming helicopter flight model.
I think that's a great thing to look forward to. I'm confident that those visible effects will follow.

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I think we need to stop blaming Xbox, After all the more that buy into the console side, the more likely the success for MSFS. Yes there's issues that have recently opened wounds, but i think generally MSFS/Asobo are trying to do their best for all. Some devs as we have seen recently are clearly heading in the nice shiny plane not many systems modelled direction.

Whilst others are pushing the boundries of whats possible (The bit we like) and in some cases issues that are a sticking point at the moment. I predict this year will be when MSFS does actually get there, and we will see complex aircraft before the year's out. And don't get me wrong, there will likely still be stubbling blocks on the way ahead.

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37 minutes ago, Car147 said:

I think we need to stop blaming Xbox, After all the more that buy into the console side, the more likely the success for MSFS. Yes there's issues that have recently opened wounds, but i think generally MSFS/Asobo are trying to do their best for all. Some devs as we have seen recently are clearly heading in the nice shiny plane not many systems modelled direction.

Whilst others are pushing the boundries of whats possible (The bit we like) and in some cases issues that are a sticking point at the moment. I predict this year will be when MSFS does actually get there, and we will see complex aircraft before the year's out. And don't get me wrong, there will likely still be stubbling blocks on the way ahead.

Yup, I think 2022 will the best year of MSFS yet.  I think when Navigraph does their survey again at the end of this year, even more people will have switched from P3D to MSFS (since XP 12 is probably coming out this year, XP may hold its market share for the time being).

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People who blame everything "wrong" with MSFS on the Xbox usually have 0 facts to support their claim. Best to ignore them.

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1 hour ago, jcomm said:

The prop changes will, ofc, be welcomed, but so far, and they say the last SU made them active in the sim, there are no apparent effects.

Not the last SU, they explicitly stated it's coming to SU8 (Feb 22) and SU9 (probably April), and I suppose more is coming further down the road. They got a bit mixed up between SU8 and WU7, but it was clear they were referring to a future release.

Edited by pstrub
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1 hour ago, Car147 said:

the nice shiny plane not many systems modelled direction.

the bit we like too 😊

I wouldn't say: "not many systems modeled" but rather "not every system modeled. which believe it or not, some people are quite happy with from time to time, in between the real "study level"  sessions. what "systems" are not modeled enough in the default Cessnas 152, 172?  😊

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This thread looks good for pc users of MSFS 2020 inc WT and others. In the early release date of the game/sim i thought quite a few x-box users

would switch to pcs and the like given the increase in hardware sales figured quoted driven by MSFS2020. Probably wrong i guess:)        

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1 hour ago, rka said:

Absolutely agree. Also I think that the pace at which the sim is evolving is mindboggling compared with everything we had before.

Gliders and helicopters and a study level 737 in year two? Two-and-a-half maybe? Wow.

Mind boggling how its first 2 years is playing catch up to sims that already have all this, and did it all day 1... Sorry Basic stuff! Still uses FSX stuff, as said in the live stream. No pat on the back for using a 15 year old flight model, sorry!

 

1 hour ago, rka said:

Gliders and helicopters and a study level 737 in year two? Two-and-a-half maybe? Wow.

FS2004 had 3 Study Level Airbus planes, from PSS in 6 months, please dont make me link the article dating back to 2006

 

1 hour ago, Car147 said:

I think we need to stop blaming Xbox

Nobody blames the XBOX, this point keeps getting missed! We (those who moan)  blame ASOBO/MS for the dumbing down, as stated by some DEVS! Why not get the sim into shape first. Now we have issue's across the board. Did you see the guys response when Jorg suggested he talks about the Weather API in the last live stream!

What we have is FSX reskinned and minus a whole load of functionality so it works on the XBOX! 

All of these things should of been ready and available at day 1. Did they not look at other sims and think we need to allow the same functionality! No doubt it will improve, but its nothing to shout about at the moment. its disappointing to say the least.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, a321 said:

Mind boggling how its first 2 years is playing catch up to sims that already have all this, and did it all day 1... Sorry Basic stuff! Still uses FSX stuff, as said in the live stream. No pat on the back for using a 15 year old flight model, sorry!

No one is patting them on the back for the 15 yo flight model, did you watch the video or at least read some of the comments?

 

8 minutes ago, a321 said:

FS2004 had 3 Study Level Airbus planes, from PSS in 6 months, please dont make me link the article dating back to 2006

Not necessary, but it would be nice if you could clarify if XP or P3D or both had all that within two years 😄

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44 minutes ago, a321 said:

 

Mind boggling how its first 2 years is playing catch up to sims that already have all this, and did it all day 1... Sorry Basic stuff! Still uses FSX stuff, as said in the live stream. No pat on the back for using a 15 year old flight model, sorry!

 

FS2004 had 3 Study Level Airbus planes, from PSS in 6 months, please dont make me link the article dating back to 2006

 

Nobody blames the XBOX, this point keeps getting missed! We (those who moan)  blame ASOBO/MS for the dumbing down, as stated by some DEVS! Why not get the sim into shape first. Now we have issue's across the board. Did you see the guys response when Jorg suggested he talks about the Weather API in the last live stream!

What we have is FSX reskinned and minus a whole load of functionality so it works on the XBOX! 

All of these things should of been ready and available at day 1. Did they not look at other sims and think we need to allow the same functionality! No doubt it will improve, but its nothing to shout about at the moment. its disappointing to say the least.

 

 

Oh dear! Maybe better for you to go back to them with that attitude.

Edited by Car147
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Both theories somehow makes the assumption that Xbox players are lesser simmer than you/we are, and that they dont care about realism. Dont know where that premise comes from, actually, i do, its a basic stereotype. I interact with Xbox customers very often, and more often than not, they are way, WAY more knowledgeable than i am regarding aviation stuff. Plus, the Xbox is basically a disguised Windows PC. So wheter MS/Asobo favors the Pc or the Xbox, doesnt make a difference to me.

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