1 hour ago, Bdub22 said:

Hmmm, it was probably when you said: "  in your opinion the difference between someone simming on a 14” laptop and practicing patterns is just as hardcore as someone with a full size A320 cockpit using 3 4K beamers".

You're referring to YOU and YOUR setup. By default, in that statement, you are referring to yourself as a hardcore simmer. Just own it dude. Like I said, pat yourself on the back. You're as hardcore as it gets. 

Wrong : I pointed to another poster who made this comparison 

2 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Wrong : I pointed to another poster who made this comparison

Do you have a full size A320 cockpit that uses 3 4K beamers ?

45 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Wrong : I pointed to another poster who made this comparison 

Gerard,

You have nothing to prove at AVSIM.

Let it go before the thread is shut down.

11 minutes ago, DJJose said:

 

Let it go before the thread is shut down.

Yep, let it go guys because the thread is on a slippery slope.

3 hours ago, jcomm said:

Just a side note:

I'd say I'm behaving like an hardcore simmer when I find important the way a given add-on is simulated in detail, no matter for what platform.

Presentlyfor me the topmost detailled / study-level / hardcore is by far a Challenger 650 available for X-Plane (which I do not own, and I'm not  even using X-Plane right now) which would be great to have in any platforms ( P3D, MFS, Flight Gear, ...):

Are you getting paid to advertise this plane? You don't even own it, but advertise it at every occasion, even here, in the flying game MSFS subforum?

 

Ok, I'll tell you why I think that no PC game will ever be a simulation. 

25 years ago I worked with a daughter of a chief MD80 instructor for Alitalia. When he knew of my passion he invited me for two hours on the "real" simulator at Rome Fiumicino airport.

I had a wonderful time, didn't make any major mistake, and also performed a perfect collision avoidance maneuver when the trainer presented me with an incoming Learjet while taking of from Linate.

Does that make me a pilot? Absolutely not. Does it mean that the PC software (Elite Jet) I had been using for practicing procedures, calls, speeds and so on was a "real" simulator? NO.

Not even the "real" MD80 at Fiumicino Airport that afternoon was a simulator: it was a game, because I could afford failure, so I was relaxed.

It's totally different from actually being in charge of a real airliner, of course, and totally different from even flying a Cessna at your local aeroclub, because if you do something wrong, in that case you may have to cough a substantial amount of money for repairs, or you may even lose your life if you are particularly unlucky.

The real Alitalia simulator had become a game because I was not even risking losing my license or being sent back to study if I started doing funny things, or lost concentration and made a bad decision.

And we all know that our mindset is what makes things hard.

So: no, to me it is and always will be a game. 

A.

26 minutes ago, rka said:

Are you getting paid to advertise this plane? You don't even own it, but advertise it at every occasion, even here, in the flying game MSFS subforum?

 

Yep, but the payment is in admiration... Ever experienced it about something ?

Guy, whoever you come from... I've been playing sims for quite a long time, am not tied to any particular platform or developer, and the thread is being turned into a more abstract concept of "hardcore simming" than about a specific flight simulation platform.

I have used a few highly detailled flight simulators, of which so far the more detailled and complex / complete ( civil flight simulation ) was, by far, Aerowinx PSX. I had Aerowinx PS1, which I actually used in the nineties with fs9 for the visuals. I also tried PSX with MFS for the same purpose because a complex / detailled / superb as in PSX simulation of a Boeing 744 isn't yet available for MFS. I can praise PSX as much as I can IL-2 for some specific details, fsx, P3d, MFS, X-Plane, Flight Gear, ... for other...

Do you think one is not able to like / talk about / show the beauty of a Lamborghini Aventador because one desn't own one ? Or admire a nice chica because one doesn't date her ?

I don't know if you can get the idea... but at least I tried ...

Edited January 30, 20224 yr by jcomm

1 minute ago, jcomm said:

Yep, but the payment is in admiration... Ever experienced it about something ?

Guy, whoever you come from... I've been playing sims for quite a long time, am not tied to any particular platform or developer, and the thread is being turned into a more abstract concept of "hardcore simming" than about a specific flight simulation platform.

I have used a few highly detailled flight simulators, of which so far the more detailled and complex / complete ( civil flight simulation ) was, by far, Aerowinx PSX. I had Aerowinx PS1, which I actually used in the nineties with fs9 for the visuals. I aslso tried PSX with MFS for the same purpose because a complex / detailled / superb as in PSX simulation of a Boeing 744 isn't yet available for MFS. I can praise PSX as much as I can IL-2 for some specific details, X-Plane, Flight Gear, ... for other...

I don't know if you can get the idea... but at least I tried ...

I asked if you get paid to advertise that plane you advertise even though you don't know it.

That you admire Hotstart (I guess that's what you mean) doesn't answer that question. That you "fly" Aerowinx, DCS and IL2 also doesn't (and probably everyone reading here is already aware of that).

 

2 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

Do you have a full size A320 cockpit that uses 3 4K beamers ?

No, Here I have a 2/3 real size 737-800 cockpit that uses large 4K TV’s . 

the real "serious" simmer (TM) can install the new WU7 tomorrow without whining, he takes it like a real pilot. a good update is one you can walk away from, no matter what hurdles MS/Asobo throw at us. keep up this thread of never ending words of wisdom, only some 30 more hours to go until WU7! then at the latest will it collapse in a heartbeat.

1 minute ago, rka said:

I asked if you get paid to advertise that plane you advertise even though you don't know it.

That you admire Hotstart (I guess that's what you mean) doesn't answer that question. That you "fly" Aerowinx, DCS and IL2 also doesn't (and probably everyone reading here is already aware of that).

 

Eheh, ok, this is my sunday after all 🙂

So, here you are:

- I do not admire "Hotstart".... I admire a specific simulation of a Challenger 650;

- I do not get other than the pleasure of looking at videos showing specifics of what I believe to be a real hardcore / study level / whatever you find appropriate to classify it, simulation of a business jet - not even the type I like to play in flight simulators because I actually am addicted to Airbus ( just as I was in the past for Boeing ) airliners.

The thread is giving rise to some ideas regarding what "hardcore" / "study-level" / ... mean in terms of flight simulation. My non-paid contribution is about an example, I'd say probably the best available at present, of a trully hardcore simulation of an aircraft and t's systems...

Looking forward for Fenix to make their debut in MFS and give us an hardcore A320... Then, I will gladly spray out the news about it's ( so I hope ) remarkable characteristics as a hardcore simulation of an Airbus airliner.

Satisfied ? I hope so.

1 hour ago, DJJose said:

Gerard,

You have nothing to prove at AVSIM.

Let it go before the thread is shut down.

This thread needs to be shut down

45 minutes ago, ADamiani said:

It's totally different from actually being in charge of a real airliner, of course, and totally different from even flying a Cessna at your local aeroclub, because if you do something wrong, in that case you may have to cough a substantial amount of money for repairs, or you may even lose your life if you are particularly unlucky.

Damiani, as someone who has flown big airplanes and now drives trains, all with many countless passengers and certifications and training regimes, I can confidently say that complacency makes people act like their job is a game.

I will admit that I personally have acted sillier than I would have on my home sim, at times. After doing the same repetitive task for several thousand hours, you just stop treating it with respect, and studies show that a lot of people who are involved in accidents or incidences actually have decades of experience under their belt. There's a sort of "U curve" graph when comparing years on the job to incidences. It's a very difficult human trait to break.

I have a coworker who last year did approximately $250,000 damage to his train by letting the computer apply the emergency brakes when it was wet and slippery out, and all 96 wheels were flattened like a desk, and the train had to be taken out of service mid route and ~2k passengers abandoned. No one even gave him a phone call about it. I think the company is so used to complacency among staff it's probably a budgeted expense at this point.

So congrats on flying the Maddog like a pro! It's a tough bird to fly requiring huge intentional control inputs, and I assure you there are pilots out there right now who treat the real thing more like a game than you did that day.

Edited January 30, 20224 yr by WestAir
spelling

1 minute ago, jcomm said:

Eheh, ok, this is my sunday after all 🙂

So, here you are:

- I do not admire "Hotstart".... I admire a specific simulation of a Challenger 650;

- I do not get other than the pleasure of looking at videos showing specifics of what I believe to be a real hardcore / study level / whatever you find appropriate to classify it, simulation of a business jet - not even the type I like to play in flight simulators because I actually am addicted to Airbus ( just as I was in the past for Boeing ) airliners.

The thread is giving rise to some ideas regarding what "hardcore" / "study-level" / ... mean in terms of flight simulation. My non-paid contribution is about an example, I'd say probably the best available at present, of a trully hardcore simulation of an aircraft and t's systems...

Looking forward for Fenix to make their debut in MFS and give us an hardcore A320... Then, I will gladly spray out the news about it's ( so I hope ) remarkable characteristics as a hardcore simulation of an Airbus airliner.

Will you spray out the news about the remarkable characterics of the Fenix Bus also without trying it out once? 😉

Quote

Satisfied ? I hope so.

Yeah, well... No. Sorry 😄

4 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

I apologize it's taken me a while to get caught up on this topic and read through everything. I would just like to single this one comment out however, because it's nauseating. 

I have tried to read through your comments in this thread without rolling my eyes all the way back through my head. You couldn't be more wrong, and even then, comically so. Just because you sprung to spend a ton of money on some flashy home cockpit and displays does not make you a more "hard core simmer". First of all, this whole debate is hilarious. What is a "hard core simmer". To me, it's someone that adheres as closely to real life flight planning and execution as possible and YES - that can be done on a 14" laptop flying circuits. As others have mentioned, even more so than what you do, turning on the autopilot at 400AGL until you're coming in for landing and turning it off 200AGL. 

The next thing that made my eyes roll backwards over and over again was your critique of MSFS and comparing it P3D or other platforms you use to power up your magical home flight sim room.  Those platforms have been around for a decade. Of course MSFS isn't advanced enough YET to offer such a serious and hard core simmer as you. I will say however, never in the history of flight sim has a developer been this committed to making something so groundbreaking and accessible to everyone, which benefits us all! Even guys like you. You know-- the true, super, truly gifted, only hardcore of hardcorest flight sim enthusiasts such as yourself. EVEN YOU GUYS, with your home cockpits will benefit in the end from this innovation. Thankfully, those that have 14" laptops and that like to fly circuits will also benefit. 

Seriously dude. Take a second to pat yourself on the back. You did it. You're hardcore. 

Now if you really read through everything in this thread, you would have noticed, that your idea, that there is no definition of a "hard core simmer", has already been mentioned about 500 times.

And for the second argument, that MSFS IS a hard core sim, because it might in the future have everything a hard core simmer needs, is free of any logic.

The last part where you just try to ridicule the guy does however fit very well to the rest of your useless post, I'll give you that.