10 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

One thing you forgot to mention is the Simbrief integration

It's in the 2nd paragraph of his post. 

 

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by Bdub22

8 hours ago, VBHB said:

Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics and what not won't cut it unfortunately I'm an A to B man.  I just wanna fly.

I couldn't have said it better. You're completely right. As much as I respect and look at developers that can code these systems true-to-life in awe, the FBW team has given us tools and extras that I believe really add to my flight simming experience. The ease of the EFB, the immersion with the sounds, etc. As much as I am loving the PMDG 737, I was surprised to see that they couldn't at least match some of these added extras that a freeware (although they do accept donations, and we all should) team did. I know there is a difference in coding, but as far as I know, it certainly isn't a roadblock. I've been a PMDG customer since 2001 and they were always the developer that innovates. With their new release, they have delivered an absolutely solid and well performing aircraft. It's something MSFS has been really waiting for and it's a home run. But, I couldn't not ask myself, "where is the innovation that PMDG used to deliver"...where's the grand slam?

We've all heard a lot about the upcoming Fenix A320 and I'm just as excited. My hope is that they truly hit a grand slam. Something that makes all the other developers say "Ok, lets start from scratch and start innovating again". Competition is good for us. And as someone who has been a loyal PMDG fan for 20 years and continues to be... I hope Fenix "beats" them. Once again, it'll be good for everyone, developers included.   

2 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

But, I couldn't not ask myself, "where is the innovation that PMDG used to deliver"...where's the grand slam?

Maybe it'll come with the -800 but honestly it's a pretty meh experience as we've all fliwn a 737 they don't change!

11 hours ago, VBHB said:

Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics and what not won't cut it

I have to agree with this. Even if such systems were implemented in a very sophisticated way, I’d probably not be able to appreciate it. A few would certainly notice, like 737NG driver and flightdeck2sim in terms of PMDG’s 737, and 320SimPilot with the Fenix.

For me an overall simming experience is the crucial point. Here the FBW pretty much nails it. 

Never underestimate what comes with what you are dismissing, as just "Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics" .

I will give you an example what that kind of depth brings. 

I put in well over a 1,000 hours in the FSL A320 and one day this happened.

I was doing a flight from Gatwick to Dublin. As I took off I must of pressed the gear retract button x2 by mistake. The wife was talking to me also, that's my excuse, becasue I also forgot to check the gear handle etc.

Now when she stoped talking I got back to the flight, I noticed my climb was terrable, speed was terrable, just what was going off?????, I had not retected the gear, so what happened? I had left it and was going far to fast for the gear to be down. The landing gear would not retract, the drag was so great the fuel burn was through the floor, I was not far from Manchester and my fuel even set for con, would not get me to Dubin as I was so slow and the gear was making the plane a brick. I had warrning all light up and I even worked through them. But Nothing made the gear come back up. I landed at Manchester.

Now tell me again "Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics" . do nothing for a A to B flyer?

They make the aircraft feel alive and you have to operate it correctly or it will bite you.  Just in a "normal" day to day flights stuff happeneds and why there are two people there.. Thats what makes the best, the best. Never underestimate these things.

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by Nyxx

I hope we can popout ND / PFD etc. with Fenix.

Big disappointment for me that it is not possible with PMDG 737 since I have quite a setup for these things

5 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Never underestimate what comes with what you are dismissing, as just "Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics" .

I will give you an example what that kind of depth bring. 

I put in well over a 1,000 hours in the FSL A320 and one day this happened.

I was doing a flight from Gatwick to Dublin. As I took off I must of press the gear retract button x2 by mistake. The wife was talking to me also, that's my excuse, becasue I also forgot to check the gear handle etc.

Now when she stoped talking I got back to the flight, I noticed my climb was terrable, speed was terrable, just what was going off?????, I had not retected the gear, so what happened? I had left it and was going far to fast for the gear to be down. The landing gear would not retract, the drag was so great the fuel burn was through the floor, I was not far from Manchester and my fuel even set for con, would not get me to Dubin as I was so slow and the gear was making the plane a brick. I had warrning all light up and I even worked through them. But Nothing made the gear come back up. I landed at Manchester.

Now tell me again "Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics" . do nothing for a A to B flyer?

They make the aircraft feel alive and you have to operate it correctly or it will bite you.  Just in a "normal" day to flight. Thats what makes the best, the best. Never underestimate these things.

I agree with this - it takes the flight from being quite sterile and procedural to being alive, so to speak. Personally I feel like if these things aren't modelled, all I'm doing is learning to press buttons in a correct order. If they are, you need to know and understand quite a bit more. I also get that that isn't for everyone, the big part of the enjoyment is learning the quirks of the real machines as much as is possible sitting at a desk 🙂

22 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Yup agreed... it all comes down to the kind of content you wanna consume and how much time you have for it.  If you only want to get the meat of an aircraft preview/review then at best just watch a stream after the fact in video form where you can fast forward as necessary, or avoid these streamers altogether and watch concise reviews elsewhere. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch these streamers, so if all this streaming is going to spoil your initial experience with the aircraft then it's simple, just don't watch them 🙂 The fact of the matter is these days, similar to how discord is a way to attract engagement with the devs and the community, so is streaming.. and dev houses would be doing themselves a disservice if they didn't tap into these audiences.

Personally I find Fabio's approach and style very enjoyable, and I especially like it when he brings on various experts including his IRL airliner pilot friends to comment further (Fabio himself is/was an IRL GA pilot and instructor I believe). Lots of useful tidbits of info tend to get aired (and not just on the stream topic in question) as part of the back and forth between the streamer and the audience... again, this is only suited for those who have some time on their hands able to watch the stream for 1-2+ hours 🙂

Not just a GA pilot.. he taught bizjets at FlightSafety for 20 years, so he’s an ATP.

20 minutes ago, Bigbluss said:

I agree with this - it takes the flight from being quite sterile and procedural to being alive, so to speak. Personally I feel like if these things aren't modelled, all I'm doing is learning to press buttons in a correct order. If they are, you need to know and understand quite a bit more. I also get that that isn't for everyone, the big part of the enjoyment is learning the quirks of the real machines as much as is possible sitting at a desk 🙂

The only moden airliner i have ever used in a sim, that made me feel I was as close to the feeling a FO/Captain gets, is with the FSL with GSXv2 working togeather. Another e.g. I had a nightmare with my flight plan and wasted time, I had a comany message light up just as I was ready to pushback, I read it, I had missed my slot for takeoff and was given a new one some 20 mins later. Everything you did had a consequence, I love that. 

"Ladys and Gentlemen....this is your captain, we have missed our slot........"

You even got a comany message in flight for your parking/gate number matching the airlines gates/parking IRL for your destination....I could go on...

If you want to place your back side in a A320 then imo I want it as close as I can get to sitting down in the real deal. Not a toy that never breaks or has no consequence when you mess up. But its not for everyone for sure.

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by Nyxx

50 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Now tell me again "Fancy hydralics and pump mechanics" . do nothing for a A to B flyer?

Well us A to B flyers always pull the gear up that's basic!

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by VBHB

 🙄

Moving on...

48 minutes ago, rob0203 said:

I hope we can popout ND / PFD etc. with Fenix.

Big disappointment for me that it is not possible with PMDG 737 since I have quite a setup for these things

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by Nyxx

It's funny there's people talking about how nice the efb and simbrief is on FBW and that the "fancy hydraulics and pump mechanics" will be on Fenix. The irony is these are already there on the FBW as they are modelling insane amounts of detail on the pumps and hydraulics, and even the weight and aerodynamic drag of the control surfaces. These are insane levels of detail that nothing until now has, payware or otherwise, but all together is what makes the FBW feel authentic and satisfying to fly. Just move the controls around, and see how the pressure drops when you only have the electric pump running with engines off, and hear it struggle and change in pitch as it's trying to build the pressure back up and tell me you don't feel you're in control of something real instead of a preprogrammed game that will do the same thing every time regardless.

So yeah, fancy pumps and hydraulics? FBW team already have those together with all the nice efb and sounds. So Fenix will have to do a hell of a job to surpass this. 

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by Makinen11

10 minutes ago, Makinen11 said:

So yeah, fancy pumps and hydraulics? FBW team already have those together with all the nice efb and sounds. So Fenix will have to do a hell of a job to surpass this. 

The Fenix has the small added advantage of probably being days away from, y'know, existing in the sim lol.  Sounds like FSL's MSFS projects are at least months away

54 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

If you want to place your back side in a A320 then imo I want it as close as I can get to sitting down in the real deal. Not a toy that never breaks or has no consequence when you mess up

Do you dress up as well? Drive to the airport? Sign in at the Airline before getting your flight plan etc?

Edited May 13, 20224 yr by VBHB

17 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

 Sounds like FSL's MSFS projects are at least months away

Years, more like years away...