46 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Did they actually demo ray tracing with MSFS? 

Sorry, no, the RTX logo blind-sided me.

Yay.. Marketing works.. In the end everyone will still get  "Main Thread Limited" and roughly the same FPS

5 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

 MS/Asobo also haven't mentioned anything about ray tracing on their roadmaps AFAIK, but who knows, possibly in a future SU.

They have mentioned it in the twitch sessions Len, and they mentioned that is why they would like to move to DX12.  Although raytracing can actually be done in DX11 apparently, it will probably be better to implement in DX12.  Also, not sure if you ever access your UserConfig file to change settings not available in sim (such as better shadows etc.), but there is a line in there for 'Raytracing' - obviously, as it isn't implemented yet, you can set it at 0 or 1 and it makes no difference.  

They have also mentioned 'other features' they would like to bring to MSFS through DX12 in the future, without being specific.  I would rather they just optimise DX12 for performance first, as (depending on the individual PC), it doesn't necessary add anything to performance.  Some people say it is smoother, some say it is more 'choppy', but not really any FPS increase.  With Train Sim World, some people are getting 40% extra performance in DX12 compared to DX11, so there must be something in the tank if it is implemented properly.

I was aiming for 60 fps with DLSS and DX12 (4k ultra settings), and I can just do it, but the GPU gets so hot and loud on the fans running (about 95% GPU utilisation), it just isn't worth it yet.  I would say 40x0 series cards will do it at a canter.  I would look to Asobo to have a first go at raytracing some time next year (especially with the newer GPU's coming out), as hopefully it might fix the artefacts we get around the window frames etc. when looking at ground / water with shadows on them - something to do with screen space reflections, which would be replaced by raytracing of course.

5 hours ago, styckx said:

Yay.. Marketing works.. In the end everyone will still get  "Main Thread Limited" and roughly the same FPS

If you look at the Nvidia presentation regarding the 40x0 series and DLSS 3, they explain how this will overcome the CPU bottlenecks.  Basically every other frame will not require any input from the CPU, potentially doubling frame rates even if you are CPU (main thread) limited.  Of course, for people on older GPU technology, they will not have the benefit, but that is the point of continuous improvement and development, and we can expect it to cost us in the pocket!  

6 hours ago, FBW737 said:

I'll be sticking with my 3090. I'll believe the hype when I see it. I've see this kind of hype before

same here. let's not forget: the 2x fps increase Jensen was showing was using DLSS3 only, they did not show any normal comparison and we don't know yet if we will really want DLSS3  activated, at least the current implementation v2 that we have already did not convince me. unless Asobo can come up with a solution to exclude certain areas from DLSS-ing (glass cockpit artefacts) I am somewhat sceptical. and without DLSS3 the fps increase will not be near as high as that 100% increase they were showing. I expect closer to 30-50% max.

Edited September 21, 20223 yr by turbomax

9 minutes ago, turbomax said:

same here. let's not forget: the 2x fps increase Jensen was showing was using DLSS3 only, they did not show any normal comparison and we don't know yet if we will really want DLSS3  activated, at least the current implementation v2 that we have already did not convince me.

This is true. Who knows what the 'real' performance increase will be. Probably closer to 1.5 X.

I'm more excited about the Nvidia Remix technology to be honest than DLSS 3. Maybe we'll be using a 'remixed' FSX again and making it look better than MSFS or maybe it will work wonders on XP12's ground textures 😆

I have held out for these cards so I will get one anyway even with the higher than hoped for cost. I'll be moving up from a GTX 1080 that has served me very well. After looking at the details and reading the analysis, I must admit though that I am a little disappointed at the price versus performance ratio. It seems that whilst these cards are really expensive to make, they are still priced too steep in my opinion, especially the increase in price of the 4080 (cough...4070), and 16gb 4080. Basically if you buy a 16gb 4080, you may as well just save up a bit more and get the 4090.

Worse still, Moore's Law is Dead (YouTube channel) pointed out that the price of the lower spec 4080 does not include a cooler in it's specs (as opposed to the specs of the other two GPUs which do include one) meaning that it may actually cost significantly more in the end once a cooler is added.

Let's see what AMD come up with on November 3rd.

35 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

If you look at the Nvidia presentation regarding the 40x0 series and DLSS 3, they explain how this will overcome the CPU bottlenecks.  Basically every other frame will not require any input from the CPU, potentially doubling frame rates even if you are CPU (main thread) limited. 

To me, this is basically a "cheat" for more FPS being displayed on a FPS counter, end of the story. Sure, in the scenario shown, going from 60 to 120 FPS, it is nice in terms of smoothness and fluidity, but what happens for example in situations around 20 FPS? Basically, exactly in those low FPS situations a 200% FPS increase would be gold, but then... if it is basically nothing more than an interpolated frame being generated by the GPU and displayed on the monitor, issues arising due to low FPS numbers like laggy control inputs etc. will NOT be alleviated. Speaking for example about precise controls of a chopper, this kind of FPS "boost" will do nothing. As the whole calculation of control inputs and such are anyway not going via GPU...

Means: if your sim feels choppy due to low FPS and high CPU usage, it will still feel choppy but then with wonderful FPS numbers shown due to the interpolated additional frames by your GPU...

8 minutes ago, AnkH said:

To me, this is basically a "cheat" for more FPS being displayed on a FPS counter, end of the story. Sure, in the scenario shown, going from 60 to 120 FPS, it is nice in terms of smoothness and fluidity, but what happens for example in situations around 20 FPS? Basically, exactly in those low FPS situations a 200% FPS increase would be gold, but then... if it is basically nothing more than an interpolated frame being generated by the GPU and displayed on the monitor, issues arising due to low FPS numbers like laggy control inputs etc. will NOT be alleviated. Speaking for example about precise controls of a chopper, this kind of FPS "boost" will do nothing. As the whole calculation of control inputs and such are anyway not going via GPU...

Means: if your sim feels choppy due to low FPS and high CPU usage, it will still feel choppy but then with wonderful FPS numbers shown due to the interpolated additional frames by your GPU...

True!  It does seem to be just a form of 'interpolation', and like you say, which won't help lag at lower frames, but I would still rather have it than not have it as a feature.

My TV interpolates up to 100Hz from as low as 24Hz films, and it is still good to have.  Not quite the same as flight simulation I know, but if this gets me to 60fps from 30fps in sim, I will be happy enough.  We need to see it working properly don't we.  I look forward to the proper Gamers Nexus reviews.

30 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

Basically if you buy a 16gb 4080, you may as well just save up a bit more and get the 4090.

or a used RTX 3090 for under $ 800, if you don't need DLSS3. unless you run at 4k or VR, you don't need no RTX 4090 anyway. the new DX12 optimised driver and SU10 ought to be  enough for anybody (Abraham Lincoln).

1 hour ago, turbomax said:

or a used RTX 3090 for under $ 800, if you don't need DLSS3. unless you run at 4k or VR, you don't need no RTX 4090 anyway. the new DX12 optimised driver and SU10 ought to be  enough for anybody (Abraham Lincoln).

The 4090 does have a lot more Cuda cores, memory, and bandwidth when looking at the specs compared to a 4080.  I can't wait to see what the performance increase is like in real world testing. 

The 4090 might be the first card to handle ray tracing at decent fps in MSFS, when ray tracing comes of course.  Might be on the 50x0 series by then! 

15 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Might be on the 50x0 series by then! 

I try to make it a rule to skip at least one generation so the 5000 series will probably be my next upgrade.

18 hours ago, Republic3D said:

It's mostly DLSS 3 performance boost. Which will only be available on 4000-series. 

Is it going to be on lower models then the 4080 and 4090? My budget will probably only stretch to a 4060.

Edited September 21, 20223 yr by ckyliu

Dont forget that most will need a new PSU as well when going for a proper 4090. Just had a look on those ASUS custom models of the RTX 4090: 600+ watts for the GPU only...

Heres my situation: Im running a 5900x and asus 3090 using a HP G2 VR headset + 850W PSU.  Running mainly maxed out graphic options but 80% resolution and 200 LOD, 100% AIG with online AI, pmdg 738 real world weather.  Taxing at O'hare gets me lowest:18fps avg:25fps high:27-30fps.  

I'm really hoping this new 4090 could get me out of that under 30fps hole in the most demanding environment without sacrificing clarity of cockpit panel display using DLSS.

I bought my asus 3090 for $2500 (DEC of 2020), could MAYBE sell it for $700? after spending probably $1800 for a new asus 4090, plus buying a new PSU (either EVGA 1300 or 1600watt) for $200.  Will the performance increase be worth it?  Obviously no one could answer this at the time of this post but just for me to keep an eye out for someone else in a similar situation after they are able to snag one up at launch. 

Oh ya, I might actually have to consider having to design a ventilation system that goes from the top of my case, through a 120mm fan compatible ducting hose that exits out the window.     

Those who have been around Flight Sim long enough know that FPS has very little to do with smoothness. If you do it right 24fps will deliver a buttery smooth Flight Sim experience.