The holy grail...

[Mace 1,928]

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Just tried four P-cores.  No good. They are over-worked and topping out at 100% (really cool though at 76C).  It introduced slight stutters and lags in the scenery tiles loading in the distance. 

Going for 6 P-cores now as the temp gains are good without hyperthreading and some cores turned off.

To Ian @Ianrivaldosmith sorry for going a bit off topic.  Well done on your PC and I am glad you are happy.  Like you, I intend to go 4090 and AMD 7 series X3D next year.

There are several vids on YT about this...this with AMD for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV2N0qn7CVg

I saw one vid with Intel architecture and their minimum core count was 6 and if they dropped below that (4) the performance started really dropping...this seems to match with what you found.  Also when they increased core count to 8 there was an increase, but it was small.  Law of diminishing returns.

Ian I have to say what you're running now is fantastic, and I wonder how much better the X3D version of that cpu will possibly be?  I mean will the law of diminishing returns kick in, and it won't be much better, or will it push us beyond even what you're seeing today?

[Noel 4,503]

3 minutes ago, Mace said:

or will it push us beyond even what you're seeing today?

Sure it will...slightly...

[Mace 1,928]

Just now, Noel said:

Sure it will...slightly...

A 5800X3D was more than slightly better in MSFS than a 5800X was.  It was significantly better.

It will come down to how MSFS responds to the cache size with the new architecture I guess.

[Noel 4,503]

10 minutes ago, Mace said:

A 5800X3D was more than slightly better in MSFS than a 5800X was.  It was significantly better.

It will come down to how MSFS responds to the cache size with the new architecture I guess.

Well, I'll be after 7900x3D because on a very practical level it *should* allow me to run RT Online Traffic and Seasons w/o ANY impact whatsoever, so that becomes meaningful for sure.  Framerates of 120, not so much.

Is it reasonable to assume x3D will not demand significantly greater cooling needs?  And, how about PSU with 3080Ti?  

Edited November 20, 2022 by Noel

[Mace 1,928]

7 minutes ago, Noel said:

Well, I'll be after 7900x3D because on a very practical level it *should* allow me to run RT Online Traffic and Seasons w/o ANY impact whatsoever, so that becomes meaningful for sure.  Framerates of 120, not so much.

Is it reasonable to assume x3D will not demand significantly greater cooling needs?  And, how about PSU with 3080Ti?  

I'd think the cooling would be about the same between the two.

As for psu, I haven't fully decided on that.  If I go 4090 or something like that then for sure I'll get a new psu.  If I move over the 3080ti then maybe I wouldn't change the psu.  I presently run 850 watt eVGA supernova 80+ Platinum.   I would really need to do more research as to power draw with any modern-gen cpu setup I went with.  I could retire this current rig to being a work computer in which case I have the option to put the 1080ti back in it (heh) but even that is overkill for my work machine.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

1 hour ago, Mace said:

Ian I have to say what you're running now is fantastic, and I wonder how much better the X3D version of that cpu will possibly be?  I mean will the law of diminishing returns kick in, and it won't be much better, or will it push us beyond even what you're seeing today?

Based on what I am experiencing now, I wouldn’t go for the X3D and would stay with the 7950X. Bearing in mind the 7050X still has a large L3 cache, it’s why I picked it over the 13900. Plus for future proofing. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Ianrivaldosmith

[steve310002 1,198]

39 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Based on what I am experiencing now, I wouldn’t go for the X3D and would stay with the 7950X.

Do you know if the architectural 'issue' that was reported on about a month ago whereby disabling half the CPU makes some games run faster, if this affects MSFS or not? Just curious if you are seeing the chip peforming at its full potential with MSFS in particular (not that you really need any additional FPS by the sounds of it).

[westman 257]

i was picking up my Galax 4090 OcLab , i have my 5800x3d and my friend have 13900k and 7950x and mobos Crosshair X670 Extreme, Crosshair VIII Extreme X570

and Maximus Z790 Apex.

we tested only MSFS2020 i want to know if it was any reason to change CPU.

tested 1920 X 1080 to get CPU bound and then 4k that i run.

in 1920x1080 it was close betwen 13900k and 7950X the 5800x3d was approx 15% faster, then we oc the 13900k cooled down to -30c 6.5ghz to be in pair with the 5800X3D , suprizing

tests in 4K was almost the same when gpu bound and the gpu frq run at 2750mhz then OC the gpu to 3150 to gain 10% more fps

the avarge was almost equal with the 13900k and 7950X and approx 1-2 % faster with the 5800X3D,

my conclusion if you have a 5800X3D no need to uppgrade cpu or atleast wait to see how the 7900X3D performs or next Intel

Edited November 20, 2022 by westman

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

10 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

Do you know if the architectural 'issue' that was reported on about a month ago whereby disabling half the CPU makes some games run faster, if this affects MSFS or not? Just curious if you are seeing the chip peforming at its full potential with MSFS in particular (not that you really need any additional FPS by the sounds of it).

No ideas mate. If it can run even better than it all ready is then I would be even more astounded!

[pmb 5,137]

4 hours ago, MDFlier said:

Whenever I think back over the past 40 year of flight simulation, the first thing I always think of is how much hardware I've thrown at it over the years🙃

Fully agree. But one thing I learned over (only) 30 years of flight simming: At a certain point it's just useless to tweak settings, config files, helper apps etc. They just do nothing (if not making things even worse).

At this point only raw power can help.

Kind regards, Michael

[MDFlier 2,031]

2 hours ago, pmb said:

At this point only raw power can help.

The only thing missing from your post is a grunt from Tim the Tool Man Taylor.

More power!

Edited November 20, 2022 by MDFlier

[andy1252 3,871]

5 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Based on what I am experiencing now, I wouldn’t go for the X3D and would stay with the 7950X. Bearing in mind the 7050X still has a large L3 cache, it’s why I picked it over the 13900. Plus for future proofing. 

My feelings too. I got my 7900 with a view to being ready for an X3D next year, but so far it feels pretty good as it is. And yep, it's got 64mb L3 cache, which is 2/3 of the 5800X3D and I believe about double the I9 L3 cache. Still getting it all set up and at the moment just enjoying the performance I never got out of my 3090ti before with my 3950x. But at least I'm all set now to go for a new gen GPU if I decide to, NV or AMD. Definitely would add my recommendation for these latest Ryzens.

[andy1252 3,871]

4 hours ago, pmb said:

At a certain point it's just useless to tweak settings, config files, helper apps etc. They just do nothing (if not making things even worse).

At this point only raw power can help.

Hi Michael, and I seem to remember from my days on the Orbx forum that this was one of JV's often repeated comments. Good luck with your new machine planning - did I read you're about to make a jump to a new box?

[pmb 5,137]

7 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

Hi Michael, and I seem to remember from my days on the Orbx forum that this was one of JV's often repeated comments. Good luck with your new machine planning - did I read you're about to make a jump to a new box?

Definitely, and I am determined to swap machines over holiday. While I could well live with 2D performance and display quality for another couple of years, I hit the wall under VR, where 20 fps and mediocre graphics just don't cut it.

As a sidemark (not meant to derail the topic), I miss the lively and enlightening discussions on the ORBX forum which is only a shadow of itself those days.

Kind regards, Michael

[Cpt_Piett 4,678]

10 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

What do I fill my time with now?!

The World Cup perhaps? 😉

13 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

I am finding it quite amusing now, with some of the snipey comments (some smack of a tinge of jealousy it seems ) and malformed expectations.

True. I guess that's to be expected considering how overhyped the 4090 has been. And how expensive it is! Still, having reasonable expectations is not a bad idea. The 4090 with frame generation really shines when flying into major hubs with lots of AI traffic. E.g. getting 60 fps coming into LAX as opposed to 30. Still, one needs a decent CPU to pull it off without stutters. Even then, the frame time variability (FTV), hence stutters, is worse in these situations. 

13 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

My setup holds 60fps at 4k for 99.9% of the time, but DD Chicago scenery, when I am close, drops me down to about 15fps!

I've had pretty bad performance in this area too with DD's scenery. Disabled it for now. 

12 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Judging by what the task manager performance tab is telling me, other than the two main threads, the others don't do a lot and they are bumbling along at about 25-30%. 

I find the opposite is true; that DX12 will utilize all the cores/threads quite well. Hence, I've got HT on in the BIOS. I'm using Process Lasso to assign the P-cores to MSFS and the E-cores to other stuff (FSLTL, AIGround, video recording software etc). Also, task manager is probably not the best in terms of viewing the load on the different cores. HWiNFO is probably better, using core utility values. These go over 100% though to reflect turbo boosts. 

Just did an approach into KBUR in the A310, en route from KDEN. Very smooth and fluid for most of the flight, fps 60+ (120+ with frame generation which is above my display native refresh rate; I've limited to 117 using RTSS). Here's the core utilization stats for the last part of the flight:

And here's some CapFrameX benchmarks from descent starting from FL380 until shutdown at the stand:

I'm sure @Noel will recognize that the FTV is not great. This is a limitation of frame generation and the best I've got at the moment. For me it's good enough although others might disagree. Especially at the price premium of a 4090. This is my "sober" review of the GPU after having it for a bit more than a month (was able to place an order at the day of release Oct 12). 

I might upload the video of the approach once it's finished processing 4K some time tomorrow CET time. 

EDIT: Word not allowed, I forgot to turn HDR off. Haven't figured out how to make HDR captures using Action! yet. Video deleted. Well - might be for the best as I made a lot of noob mistakes in the A310, lol.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Cpt_Piett