10 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

You refuse to use the correct function call for your target OS because somehow in your brain you see it as hacking and casually proceed to MSFS scenery errors. You are one of  a kind sparksy

 Im pointing out the fact windows lacks multicore support is the reason windows phone died and very likely the reason xbox doesnt support VR.

If xbox supported VR there is, imho, a good chance this navigraph survey wouldn't have been so disastrous for Asobo, unfortunately there is nothing Asobo can do to fix the breathtaking levels of incompetence of the few MS employees still working on developing microsofts platforms.

 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by mSparks

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

 Im pointing out the fact windows lacks multicore support is the reason windows phone died and very likely the reason xbox doesnt support VR.

If xbox support VR there is, imho, a good chance this navigraph survey wouldn't have been so disastrous for MS, unfortunately there is nothing Asobo can do to fix the breathtaking levels of incompetence of the few MS employees still working on developing microsofts platforms.

 

Perhaps you'll be able to convince one or two avsim readers your conclusions about windows multicore support based on one specific programming language having one specific different function call for one specific operation for Windows. Great find.

You guys having fun yet? Can’t decide whether  to lock this or just let you guys have it out. You all know that all this arguing doesn’t amount to anything, right? There’s no prize at the end. 😂😂

4 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

Perhaps you'll be able to convince one or two avsim readers your conclusions about windows multicore support based on one specific programming language having one specific different function call for one specific operation for Windows. Great find.

Its just the latest example in a very very long line of examples. (that screenshot is from an employee who was still on windows, they wont be next year, we'll likely be buying them a mac if linux doesnt hold.)

More acute here is whether or not WASM does actually make it onto xbox for the same reasons, touch and go at the moment, and failing will pretty much kill any hopes MS and Asobo have of keeping the market share they paid so much for with expensive hyperbole.

4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Its just the latest example in a very very long line of examples. (that screenshot is from an employee who was still on windows, they wont be next year, we'll likely be buying them a mac if linux doesnt hold.)

So... instead of using the programming language as specified by the documentation you rather spend money on new hardware so you can write mclapply instead of parlapply. Good luck for the poor guy paying the bills.

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by Kopteeni

19 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

So... instead of using the programming language as specified by the documentation you rather spend money on new hardware so you can write mclapply instead of parlapply. Okiedokie...

Its nothing to do with the programming language.

multicore is a hardware interface thing. Windows offers the audio equivelent of playing music from the motherboard speaker. 

for those to young to know what Im talking about

That's why even microsoft uses linux for the vast majority of azure servers they stream the msfs scenery from.... They just dont have the code and expertise needed to make it in house. 

 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, Noel said:

It's the general, automatic derogatory/deriding portrayal of any and all aspects of MSFS that characterizes all comments about MSFS from Sparks, Goran, flying_carpet and a few others here and has since the day I first appeared here, hence the 'cult' mentality of us against them

Speaking for myself, Prior to X-Plane 12, I’ve always maintained that MSFS has outstanding scenery and environmental lighting. The flight model, based on what I know, not so much. That’s not derogatory. It’s an informed opinion.  Anyone can disagree with me, and no hard feelings. I really don’t know where you get this idea I’m being derogatory.  If being derogatory is telling people to enjoy what they enjoy, and to stick to the forums of what they like, then I’m guilty. Other than that, and unless you can show me otherwise, your accusation makes no sense. 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by GoranM

23 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Its nothing to do with the programming language.

multicore is a hardware interface thing. Windows offers the audio equivelent of playing music from the motherboard speaker. 

for those to young to know what Im talking about

That's why even microsoft uses linux for the vast majority of azure servers they stream the msfs scenery from.... They just dont have the code and expertise needed to make it in house. 

 

I suggest you to start with the basics, fix your function calls and then proceed with the more advanced concepts.

35 minutes ago, cmpbellsjc said:

Can’t decide whether  to lock this

Oh come live on the wild side a little!  No one can get hurt, it doesn't cost anything, and quite obviously none of us has anything better to do!  

Happy Holidays All, even here in the XP forum 🎄🎅

4 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

I suggest you to start with the basics, fix your function calls and then proceed with the more advanced concepts.

Tell it to microsoft maybe? they are the ones who cant get VR onto Xbox, it works just fine on my linux box in XP12

Perhaps get them to add some boom boom to MSFS at the same time, so people can have actually some fun with it.

Otherwise I fear the next navigraph surveys will look very reminiscent of the 2016/2017 ones when FSX was the most popular flight sim.

 

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

Tell it to microsoft maybe? they are the ones who cant get VR onto Xbox, it works just fine on my linux box in XP12

Perhaps get them to add some boom boom to MSFS at the same time, so people can have actually some fun with it.

Otherwise I fear the next navigraph surveys will look very reminiscent of the 2016/2017 ones when FSX was the most popular flight sim.

 

Tell Microsoft that your team is having a confusion in which OS your code is supposed to target?

11 hours ago, SierraDelta said:

How on earth did you achieve that ???

It's MS, they're devious and sneaky. It's no wonder they're showing signs of weakness in this survey, as those who are smarter than I am have pointed out in this thread (there's no way MS can be happy about the numbers we're seeing here). I'm excited for LR to push XP12 into the next echelon and take the top spot!  mSparks is particularly good at explaining it; I'm kind of a peon in these discussions.

Quote

The fact that XP12 is behind XP11 on the survey, and XP11 has 3 - 4x more than XP12 on Steam is not a good thing to me...it shows that XP12 is not selling well even within XPs user base.

Quote

Hence the question...beyond the 2 reasons I already raised...why are XP11 users not upgrading to XP12???

a. We've already clearly established that Steam metrics are largely inapplicable to flight sim in general.

Even the Navigraph survey isn't truly representative due to it's limited sample distribution and size. However it is the most representative sample we have.

b. Why does it not occur to you that the primary reason is likely to be simply that v12 has only been released for about a week now?

There are many folks who (understandably) don't care for Betas, if for no other reason than their favorite addons aren't available. Never mind all the glitches and recurring incompatibilities that come with Betas.

I have seen countless comments indicating folks are satisfied to wait in v11 until their particular "sweet spot" manifests.

Even now, many of the 3PDs still have yet to release their v12 updates, and have stated they're waiting until v12 is out of Beta to address the re-writes needed.

And it's only been a week since release, so...

For example, one could also ask the same question of P3D v4 vs v5, where there are still nearly as many flying v4, despite the quantum improvements in v5 (not least of which being a 50% jump in performance, plus native volumetric clouds, plus revamped global scenery, etc.).

I can tell you that, to this day, there are a LOT of addons that simply don't work/work well in v5.

And v5 has been out since early 2020!!!

It would seem Flight Simmers might generally a conservative group when it comes to upgrading, no?

eta: don't you wonder why XP v12 wasn't included in the survey even though the Beta had been available for awhile?

Edited December 25, 20223 yr by UrgentSiesta
add another fact

On 12/22/2022 at 4:55 AM, GoranM said:

They've been published.  MSFS is obviously 1st in popularity.  No surprises there.  The big surprise is that XP11.50 is 2nd at about 35% to 40% of people using it.  DCS 3rd. X-Plane 12 4th.  P3D is behind all of them.  

X-Plane is doing much, much better than I expected.  And I expected MSFS to be much further in front (with 10 million downloads).  

Also, the fact X-Plane 12 is about 10%-15% behind X-Plane 11.50 in numbers, after only 3 months is outstanding.  I guess it's obvious.  These numbers destroy the steam stats.  It's no wonder LR have started hiring more people.  With X-Plane 12 having 1/3 of the users of MSFS, after only 3 months, and just coming out of beta, they must be rolling in the money.  I love it when the numbers come out.  Puts to rest all the speculation and misinformation.

https://navigraph.com/blog/survey2022

 

Since you're a dev, you must have more/different data or deeper breakdowns?

for e.g., I don't actually see any of your metrics above in the survey...

XP 12 isn't broken out in the survey at all...

And nowhere have I seen that XP v12 has 1/3 the number of users of MSFS... (i've yet to see numbers like that even for v11 vs MSFS).

I'd like it if your numbers were true, just haven't seen them...

so, sources, please?

1 hour ago, Kopteeni said:

Tell Microsoft that your team is having a confusion in which OS your code is supposed to target?

No confusion, just that trying to use a windows machine takes 15 hours eta to complete what linux and macos can do in 3 minutes for the same hardware. even with windows pretending its using all the cores.

More acute than for say XP, which is only 50% slower on windows at using cpu cores. 

But its business, time is money, and more developer effort for less performance (e.g. WASM) is something specific the microsoft crowd enjoy that I will never understand.

Edited December 25, 20223 yr by mSparks