1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

That is the kicker, really.  It will remain in second place, which is fine .... but if the big developers jump ship and you start seeing the best DC-10 ever made show up only in MSFS, that's a problem.

That's the key word, isn't it.  "If".  So far, even after 2 years, only 1 X-Plane aircraft developer has made an aircraft for MSFS.  And that's inibuilds.  Other developers in X-Plane don't care that they did what they did.  It's none of our business.  ini customers cared.  A lot.  A lot of them were left with an add on that wasn't going to be updated for XP12, and they expressed their anger in more ways than 1.  But ini did right and they announced that updates wold be forthcoming.  So kudos to them.

I'm in the Laminar slack group as part of the test group for XP12, and there are 200+ other developers and flight simmers in that group.  Not one of them has shown an interest in leaving X-Plane.  The enthusiasm they show when making suggestions for things to add in XP12 is extremely encouraging.  And if some of them want to make add ons for other flight sims, it's "C ya.  Good luck.  Make a ton!".  I even helped a dev friend of mine with a modelling and substance painter workflow for MSFS.  He got the hang of it and I wished him all the best.  He now has, I think 2 add ons in the market place and is working with another dev team.  

At the end of the day, who cares??  X-Plane 12 exists.  It's been funded by XP11.  And if/when XP13 rolls around, that will be funded by XP12 sales.  If developers want to leave, they leave.  We shrug our shoulders and move on. I really don't see why there has to be sim wars.

On another topic, numbers are increasing, for both.

1209 active players in XP11

https://vginsights.com/game/269950

328 active players in XP12 currently.  If we go back a few weeks, many people from the other flight sim were writing XP12 off because numbers were at about 120.  That's an almost 300% increase in a matter of weeks.

https://vginsights.com/game/2014780

And these are just Steam numbers.  Not total numbers.  

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by GoranM

37 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

Because now it is much more depedant on internet infrastructucture / servers being up and in place, login systems working.  Sure you can turn off ortho scenery but that only scratches the surface of how "server dependant" this product is now.

Everyone is well aware of what happens when they turn the lights out:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/epic-games-to-shut-down-servers-for-unreal-tournament-rock-band-games

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

ROFL, thanks for that.

Sooo, to answer the question, what happens next when the most popular flight simulator isn't the best flight simulator.

I think you can just look to Navigraph survey 2016 to 2019 for the answer.

Don't hesitate to comment 🙂

13 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I really don't see why there has to be sim wars.

In this case, I don't think it's "sim wars".

This was more of everyone happily making addons for X-Plane 11 (and some P3D) and then WHAM something drops out of the sky that nobody saw coming that captured the majority market share.

Developers follow money.  So we shall see down the road how it really shakes out.

19 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Don't hesitate to comment 🙂

done, was just testing it here first. YT flamewars get messy quickly.

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by mSparks

24 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

In this case, I don't think it's "sim wars".

This was more of everyone happily making addons for X-Plane 11 (and some P3D) and then WHAM something drops out of the sky that nobody saw coming that captured the majority market share.

Developers follow money.  So we shall see down the road how it really shakes out.

Absolutely, undeniably, 100% on nobody seeing it coming.  MSFS hit everyone in the face.  Some of us wondered if a new version of MSFS would come around, but we thought P3D locked that up.  

Do developers follow the money?  Depends.  I've never said no to making add ons for MSFS in the future.  I get asked a few times a week when we're going to make a CL650 for MSFS.  For now, I'm perfectly happy making the living I'm making in X-Plane.  I know the workflow.  I've learnt everything I need to learn.  And the bills are getting paid with any extra going to a nest egg.  Obviously, I won't go into details on my financial status, but I'm very comfortable.  And the wife is happy.  

 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by GoranM

a lot of excellent airplanes are coming in sims other than xplane.  As a non xp guy.  Can somebody list the top 5 airports and top 5 aircraft that are in development to be released in next year?    I personally do not see a rich portfolio of to be released payware coming to xplane.  It somewhat is similar to the development we are seeing with p3d.  Far more similar to p3d than msfs.  

On 12/22/2022 at 9:00 AM, Baber20 said:

What Laminar has accomplished with a much much smaller team is nothing short of amazing

Not really--the same dev has been at it now for 26 long years, so no surprises there whatsoever.

13 minutes ago, micstatic said:

a lot of excellent airplanes are coming in sims other than xplane.  As a non xp guy.  Can somebody list the top 5 airports and top 5 aircraft that are in development to be released in next year?  

We'll know when they drop if they are as good as their screenshots make them look. Dont think we're allowed to share the sceenshots.

It would also be somewhat unfair to those who got missed.

I think it is fair to say

Is the minimum quality to expect from every aircraft set to drop for XP12.

Airports are harder, since default airports are already to such a high quality there isnt really the market for 3PDs unless they really put the effort in.

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by mSparks

20 minutes ago, micstatic said:

a lot of excellent airplanes are coming in sims other than xplane.  As a non xp guy.  Can somebody list the top 5 airports and top 5 aircraft that are in development to be released in next year?    I personally do not see a rich portfolio of to be released payware coming to xplane.  It somewhat is similar to the development we are seeing with p3d.  Far more similar to p3d than msfs.  

I won’t give you the “top 5” aircraft. But I can give you 5. Felis 747-200. Toliss airbus. My Dc3. TBM 900. CL650. I’d say they’re all pretty good. 

 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by GoranM

On 12/23/2022 at 8:43 AM, GoranM said:

No thanks.  Molten buildings are plentiful.

That's poor photogrammetry only which is not ready for prime time and is why so many fly with it off for now and rely on Blackshark AI--here's what it looks like w/ PG off, all over the world in large part--unbelievably accurate, photorealistic beyond words, and always looks this good here in pedestrian Kansas City MO:

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Noel said:

Blackshark AI--here's what it looks like w/ PG off, all over the world in large part-

That's just making 3D scenery from OSM data, something we have had in X-Plane since Xplane 10 in 2011

https://developer.x-plane.com/2011/04/openstreetmap-and-x-plane-10/

Just in case you were wondering why no one here cares. It's old and not exciting.

 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by mSparks

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

That's just making 3D scenery from OSM data, something we have had in X-Plane since Xplane 10 in 2011

https://developer.x-plane.com/2011/04/openstreetmap-and-x-plane-10/

Just in case you were wondering why no one here cares. It's old and not exciting.

Oh but it's so accurate, and so photoreal.  Why don't you head on over to KC and take a screenshot--see if you can find the same area, and post it here so everyone can compare.  And actually, what I'm wondering is how you can speak for everyone here.  Nevermind, I just figured it out...

 

 

11 minutes ago, Noel said:

Oh but it's so accurate, and so photoreal.

actually yes, XP is doing far better at putting trees where they should be rather than in front of pretty much every runway you want to land at. The disadvantages are otherwise the identical.

18 minutes ago, mSparks said:

That's just making 3D scenery from OSM data, something we have had in X-Plane since Xplane 10 in 2011

https://developer.x-plane.com/2011/04/openstreetmap-and-x-plane-10/

Just in case you were wondering why no one here cares. It's old and not exciting.

 

This is true, they are both using OSM data.  It comes down to which one renders it better.

X-Plane 12 is still in beta, one of the things they need to focus on is making the OSM integration better, esp with regards to roads, building types, etc... stuff like that.

Noel is correct.  If you do a side by side of just the OSM data from both sims, MSFS will look vastly better.

But it's the same data source, no reason X-Plane can't catch up.