2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

To paraphrase Charles Darwin, "Adapt...or perish."

Exactly. The tech I was referring to is Vulkan. A brilliant move by LR to further adapt.

 

2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

Weather and atmospherics

I'll give you that one for now!

 

2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

Better multi-core CPU usage.

Just using more cores? Anyone can build a random number generator in a 'for' loop that burns CPU cycles...oh wait, that's exactly what they're doing!

 

2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

Seamless and global multiplayer.

XP did that first in mobile. And it's a silly gimmick. The whole 'but you can fly with your friends!' is very much an xbox thing. Guaranteed that the vast majority of those on avsim using it, aren't doing it with notable regularity.

 

2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

vast majority of 3PDs

Really? Huh. I'm not aware of any XP devs dropping 12 support. I'm not seeing the loss here. And there's nothing LR could have done to woo anyone else that they would actually want to get (eg PMDG).

 

2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

You'll usually get closer by following the money

Exactly. As Goran pointed out in the past, this is fairly saturated now and I've heard more than one complaint about garbage addons for sale (thrown in your face in the opening map no less!) that are pure cash grabs. That number will certainly continue growing. 

 

2 hours ago, OlliePen said:

Modern antialiasing and other graphics processing (TAA, DLSS+RT and DX12.)

Vulkan is a better move than DX12 for a low-level gfx API. Hands down. And LR is clearly a few steps ahead there. TAA will most likely come later down the road. FSR > DLSS.

And RT? If anything, LR is showing in 12 that RT isn't needed for reflections. If you count volumetric clouds in the RT category, then what's your point? It's in the sim now and will continue to improve/evolve.

 

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by blingthinger

10 hours ago, YMMB said:

How many sim users didn't actually take part?....in my case have P3Dv5 & MSFS however solely use MSFS and never did the survey.

Hi,

 

Yep, didn't do the survey myself and use XP12 100%. 

13 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Yep, didn't do the survey myself and use XP12 100%. 

Same here, I didn't even know the survey was happening. I guess, unless you visit the partners' forums or get their newsletters, most people don't take part or even know about it.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Exactly. As Goran pointed out in the past, this is fairly saturated now and I've heard more than one complaint about garbage addons for sale (thrown in your face in the opening map no less!) that are pure cash grabs. That number will certainly continue growing. 

You're 100% correct. The shovelware is real. I've literally bought over a dozen add-ons accidentally while clicking in the world map, which essentially just looks like a big pop-up ad---you can barely even see the continents to flight plan. It's insidious, and frankly we need more individuals like yourself ensuring people understand the dangers to consumers.

I mostly use MSFS currently as the marketing is too hard to overcome, but there will come a day when XP12 rules the roost, and at that time I will change into my custom-made LR monogrammed polo shirt. 

On 12/22/2022 at 9:55 AM, GoranM said:

Also, the fact X-Plane 12 is about 10%-15% behind X-Plane 11.50 in numbers, after only 3 months is outstanding.  I guess it's obvious. 

So wait, you can make observations and draw conclusions, but others can't?

The fact that XP12 is behind XP11 on the survey, and XP11 has 3 - 4x more than XP12 on Steam is not a good thing to me...it shows that XP12 is not selling well even within XPs user base.

12 hours ago, GoranM said:

Ok?  Why is this an issue?  XP11 has been out 5 years.  XP12 has been out 3 months.  Your comparison is ridiculous.

Thanks for your insight and colorful commentary. We both came to different conclusions concerning outside stats. Its your opinion and my opinion, plain an simple.

12 hours ago, GoranM said:

All of it applies here.  I've seen many people show surprise that there are still people on FS2002.  Why haven't they upgraded?

Again, Your FS2002 analogy would be relevant if there were more FS2002 users than MSFS....but that's certainly not the case. Again, lets stick with XP in this discussion.

12 hours ago, GoranM said:

 I'm looking at the numbers.  I'm not assuming anything.  

I am also looking at the numbers...from 2 sources now....and they indicate to me that XP12 is not doing very well compared to its predecessor...

..............................................

Hence the question...beyond the 2 reasons I already raised...why are XP11 users not upgrading to XP12???

 

36 minutes ago, Dermot McClusky said:

frankly we need more individuals like yourself ensuring people understand the dangers to consumers

I'm just looking out for your mouse-clicker muscles! And yes, it is tacky. But hey, so is I-15 at P. of the Mountain and you're fully on board there... the shoe fits!

 

12 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

why are XP11 users not upgrading to XP12

You sure do struggle with the concept of 'beta' release. What you need to address is why haven't they abandoned LR entirely after getting an eye full of what 12 was going to bring anyways? They've had months to make that decision prior and there's supposedly 'better' out there, right?? Just a few strenuous mouse clicks away no less.

But no, they stay. '23's survey will be a different story for the 11 chunk. Haven't seen a reason yet to think they won't transition to 12 as the addons flow in. Most of them being free updates.

9 hours ago, peroni said:

Before this thread gets locked too (mostly because of the same user spamming with nonsense) I would like to say that Steam numbers should not be ignored.
They offer a different insight and due to regional prices Steam can sometimes be the only option for simmers in less fortunate parts of the globe.

I just checked the current XP12 Steam prices in a few random places 
Chile = equivalent of 17.34 USD
Hong Kong = equivalent of 22.16 USD
Vietnam = equivalent of 13.63 USD
South Africa = equivalent of 12.87 USD

 

Don't neglect regional purchasing power. Those prices may look really low for us rich country people, but good part, if not the majority, of people there will most likely save for quite a while to afford XP12.

 

2 hours ago, tonywob said:

Same here, I didn't even know the survey was happening. I guess, unless you visit the partners' forums or get their newsletters, most people don't take part or even know about it.

The survey was normally pitched too often and widely enough to be ignored, but this year, everything seemed quieter.

1 minute ago, blingthinger said:

You sure do struggle with the concept of 'beta' release.

I understand it well, and often get games (depending on the Dev) in beta release stage.

2 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

What you need to address is why haven't they abandoned LR entirely after getting an eye full of what 12 was going to bring anyways?

I don't need to address it, but it is a fair question for you to ask...

6 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

They've had months to make that decision prior and there's supposedly 'better' out there, right?? Just a few strenuous mouse clicks away no less.

Does not address why they haven't upgraded...

8 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

But no, they stay. '23's survey will be a different story for the 11 chunk. Haven't seen a reason yet to think they won't transition to 12 as the addons flow in. Most of them being free updates.

Yep, I addressed both the compatibility issue and the maturity issue in my original post on the matter. So you are simply repeating my earlier point. So it seems like...we both understand the beta release concept...

36 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

The fact that XP12 is behind XP11 on the survey, and XP11 has 3 - 4x more than XP12 on Steam is not a good thing to me...it shows that XP12 is not selling well even within XPs user base.

 

The final version came out a few days ago.. Users are slow to upgrade as with any release.. There are even users still sat there on FS9 

 

11 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

24 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

What you need to address is why haven't they abandoned LR entirely after getting an eye full of what 12 was going to bring anyways?

I don't need to address it, but it is a fair question for you to ask...

For software devs, is that not the only question that really matters? How long they take to get there is irrelevant, especially when there is plenty of eye candy to be had elsewhere that obviously isn't pulling them away.

3 minutes ago, tonywob said:

 

The final version came out a few days ago.. Users are slow to upgrade as with any release.. There are even users still sat there on FS9 

I am not totally convinced that this is the case with XP12. And FS9 does not apply as 10M users on the current platform dwarfing stragglers on an older platform does not signal the same issue as XP11 users > XP12 users on the 2 stats that I am aware of.

Again, I already addressed the compatibility and maturity issue....but I still see a problem beyond that...

For one, there was significant hype around XP12, lead up vids etc. Even then, the views and buzz (or lack thereof) indicated little interest. Also, someone mentioned LR slashing the price of XP12 and pushing ads though XP11 (If true), and the unfavorable YT reviews.

To me, it did not look good from the original announcement and comments back then. These stats just point more to what I suspected from the start.

7 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

For software devs, is that not the only question that really matters? How long they take to get there is irrelevant, especially when there is plenty of eye candy to be had elsewhere that obviously isn't pulling them away.

I think that Devs (particularly new Devs / wanting to introduce new products for XP12) would have an overall concern that XP12 has a small user base / potential sales.

7 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

To me, it did not look good from the original announcement and comments back then. These stats just point more to what I suspected from the start.

I'm more willing to wait and see, but I'm not expecting to see a mass exodus. X-Plane will always have its fanbase and those users who simply can't run MFS (Linux, Mac OS) such as myself etc. I don't personally believe it's end-of-product news, LR have their own vision and outlook for their platform and have since for as long as I can remember (They were around when FSX was cancelled). There will almost certainly be a market for the simulator, even if it's the niche crowd it used to be with XP10, it's still there and will continue. Plus, LR has grown in developer terms over the past few years as well.

8 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I think that Devs (particularly new Devs / wanting to introduce new products for XP12) would have an overall concern that XP12 has a small user base / potential sales.

I can't really argue with this one. However, MFS also has a problem of being very oversaturated developer wise. MFS is way more forgiving in terms of making poorly made content look good due to the environment it renders it in and lighting (AO etc), X-Plane and P3D not so much and it stands out. Developers really wanting to stand out on MFS really need to work extremely hard to stand out (modelling interiors of airports, animated passengers) but yet still charge cheap prices to out-price everyone else. Good for consumers, but I'm somewhat concerned on where things are heading long-term as it's not sustainable

1 hour ago, OverTheEDJ said:

The fact that XP12 is behind XP11 on the survey

Again, since you seemed to have missed it

20% of people who flight sim have tried xplane 12

so taking 20% of

58 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

as 10M users on the current platform

gives 2+ million people on X-Plane 12.

and 3+ million people on Plane 11.

Considering xplane 12 only came out of beta a few days ago I dont really share your concern.

Although clearly the 10M is nonsense, more realistically its like 1M, 200k and 300k, and the 10m includes 9m who installed it via gamepass on xbox, flew over their house, then got bored and uninstalled it.

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I think that Devs (particularly new Devs / wanting to introduce new products for XP12) would have an overall concern that XP12 has a small user base / potential sales.

As I said a few posts up: none of the existing XP devs have abandoned the platform, even after seeing what you claim are 'disturbing' numbers.