5 minutes ago, micstatic said:

I'm honestly not sure how to reconcile what I'm reading here in this topic compared to the survey data.  Especially also looking at the behavior we've seen from third party developers the last year.  My takeaway is a lot different than some of you guys.   MSFS is still out climbing the competition.  However I think xplane has clearly shown a respectable trend in the survey.  Just my honest takeaway

Only an word not allowed person would suggest MSFS isn't the most popular flight sim.  Numbers don't lie.  And like you said, X-Plane has a respectable audience.  The problem some of us in here have is just because we don't want to be part of the most popular flight sim, doesn't make us wrong in our decision.  We just want the 2 cults to stay in their own cultist forum.  We're just missing the polo shirts.

😉

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by GoranM

25 minutes ago, psolk said:

I'm pretty sure Austin would be ecstatic if XP12 sold close to 1M copies in the first 2 weeks

well, if we take all the numbers at face value.

msfs has 10 million "pilots"

20% of them are flying xp12 at least "rarely" less than week after its release.

one way or another Im pretty sure Austin is pretty happy with the way things have gone.

2 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Only an word not allowed person would suggest MSFS isn't the most popular flight sim.  Numbers don't lie.  And like you said, X-Plane has a respectable audience.  The problem some of us in here have is just because we don't want to be part of the most popular flight sim, doesn't make us wrong in our decision.  We just want the 2 cults to stay in their own cultist forum.  We're just missing the polo shirts.

😉

I suspect the polo shirts are not missing 😉

2 hours ago, micstatic said:

I suspect the polo shirts are not missing 😉

If they were available, I'd buy myself a box right now.  I’m definitely envious of the MSFS cultists who got their hands on the MSFS polo’s. 

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by GoranM

Consistent with Steam’s current stats, this survey shows that there are a significant amount of XP11 users who have not upgraded to XP12, including me. While I am waiting for XP12 to mature and to see how strong the support is going forward; other than waiting for addon compatibility, I can’t think of additional reasons for holding off that would indicate that these XP11 holdouts will eventually upgrade.

It would be interesting to hear additional reasons why XP11 users have not upgraded to XP12.

3 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Consistent with Steam’s current stats, this survey shows that there are a significant amount of XP11 users who have not upgraded to XP12, including me. While I am waiting for XP12 to mature and to see how strong the support is going forward; other than waiting for addon compatibility, I can’t think of additional reasons for holding off that would indicate that these XP11 holdouts will eventually upgrade.

It would be interesting to hear additional reasons why XP11 users have not upgraded to XP12.

Lack of disposable income.  Stability.  Add on incompatibility.  Happy with XP11.5.  Not interested in running an early version of X-Plane 12.  The survey shows a significant number of people still using FS2002.  One could ask the question why they haven't upgraded to MSFS 2020.  Even now, a full 20 years after FS2002's release.  Why haven't P3D users upgraded?  Why haven't FSX users upgraded?  Why haven't FS9 users upgraded?  The same can be said about why people choose to stay on older versions of Windows.  Or older versions of MacOS.  MacOS, and all the new versions of it, is free with Mac computers, and people still refuse to upgrade MacOS when a new version comes out.

There's all kinds of reasons that need to be respected. And quite frankly, it's no one's business why they haven't upgraded. They're entitled to enjoy what they choose to enjoy, for whatever the reason, without judgement.  

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by GoranM

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

Lack of disposable income.  Stability.  Add on incompatibility.  Happy with XP11.5.  Not interested in running an early version of X-Plane 12.

Thanks for your insight. However, you mainly repeated  / rephrased the same "add on incompatibility" and "maturity" issues that I already mentioned in my post...that you quoted.

 

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

 The survey shows a significant number of people still using FS2002.  One could ask the question why they haven't upgraded to MSFS 2020.  Even now, a full 20 years after FS2002's release.

One could, but issue with XP is that both the survey and steam stats that there are more XP11 users than XP12 users. That is not the case with FS2002 vs MSFS, so your analogy does not apply here.

 

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

Why haven't P3D users upgraded?  Why haven't FSX users upgraded?  Why haven't FS9 users upgraded?  The same can be said about why people choose to stay on older versions of Windows.  Or older versions of MacOS.  MacOS, and all the new versions of it, is free with Mac computers, and people still refuse to upgrade MacOS when a new version comes out.

Again, none of this applies here, I am specifically talking about what 2 separate sources show about XP11 users > XP12 users ...in an XP thread. Let's not deflect...

 

4 hours ago, GoranM said:

There's all kinds of reasons that need to be respected.

...

4 hours ago, GoranM said:

And quite frankly, it's no one's business why they haven't upgraded. They're entitled to enjoy what they choose to enjoy, for whatever the reason, without judgement.  

It could be said that all of the questions in the survey are no one's business, but you are the one who started this thread giving your "take" on some of the stats. So apparently, we are all interested in knowing the who, how, why, what & when as it pertains to our hobby.

...........

Again, it would be interesting to know additional reasons why XP11 users have not upgraded to XP12...as at least 2 sources now show.

21 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Thanks for your insight. However, you mainly repeated  / rephrased the same "add on incompatibility" and "maturity" issues that I already mentioned in my post

Does that include the lack of disposable income?

22 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

One could, but issue with XP is that both the survey and steam stats that there are more XP11 users than XP12 users.

Ok?  Why is this an issue?  XP11 has been out 5 years.  XP12 has been out 3 months.  Your comparison is ridiculous.

23 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Again, none of this applies here

All of it applies here.  I've seen many people show surprise that there are still people on FS2002.  Why haven't they upgraded?

24 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

It could be said that all of the questions in the survey are no one's business, but you are the one who started this thread giving your "take" on some of the stats.

My take?  30% to 35% of flight simmers use X-Plane 11 and 20% are using XP12.  75% of flight simmers use MSFS.  That's not my "take".  That shows a very clear, factual ratio of ownership and disproves many peoples assumptions that X-Plane is "dead".  I'm looking at the numbers.  I'm not assuming anything.  

If you really want additional reasons why people haven't upgraded, then just go by your reasons.  They want to wait until a few more updates are published.  

How many sim users didn't actually take part?....in my case have P3Dv5 & MSFS however solely use MSFS and never did the survey.

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by YMMB

6 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

It would be interesting to hear additional reasons why XP11 users have not upgraded to XP12.

• Ground textures/Autogen
• 4K Performance
• VR performance
• Necessary investment of time and money to tune to my liking and have addon aircraft available

That's it for me mostly. I have the XP12 demo installed and regularly try it, but cannot yet convince myself to take the plunge and buy.

 

1 hour ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Again, it would be interesting to know additional reasons why XP11 users have not upgraded to XP12...

In my humble opinion almost entirely because of compatibility reasons.

People have a favourite plane/helicopter and things to do in it - not so much a favourite sim.

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by mSparks

As I have just posted at the homologous thread running at the MFS forum, I am convinced that most XP11 users will fully migrate to XP12 as compatibility issues get ironed out by developers of their base products. Xp12 is a very promising platform and I really believe it'll continue to grow in popularity and, above all, also in the quality / fine tuning of it's model of the World and of Flight, but !!!

But for me I strongly believe a big surprise is coming from LM and the next version of P3D. Nothing has been officially announced regarding the next P3D having it's World Unigine-based, but I have a strong feeling it will be the case.

Maybe around 2024 P3D will occupy the 2nd place in the Navigraph Survey, converging to the 1st...

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

well, if we take all the numbers at face value.

msfs has 10 million "pilots"

20% of them are flying xp12 at least "rarely" less than week after its release.

 

Seriously. I hate to respond but it would be so nice to just have a fact based honest conversation.  Stop worrying about being right all the time and just have a REAL conversation...

Those are sales numbers on PC only verified multiple times, not marketing numbers.  Just accept the FACTS as they have been presented and confirmed by numerous resources.

20% of 10 million people didn't migrate to XP after it's release!!  How do you actually take that from the survey??? Seriously? I am just shaking my head at your "logic" 🙄 How did you get to A+B=XY

As others have pointed out what XP12 has done is respectable but the numbers you are trying to construe from that survey are ludicrous... Simply ludicrous to imply XP12 has taken 20% of 10 million pilots since it's release.... Sure, it has 2M copies sold in the first week which would have outsold MSFS entirely... Really? Show your work in the margins please because your numbers don't add up.

Your bias is SO skewed you are now here arguing pure sales numbers and making up your own narrative out of them. 

This has nothing to do with XP vs any other sim at this point it's about being able to have an HONEST conversation in this forum without one person's bias overrunning every single thread and without skewing every thread to their own narrative.

The lengths you will go to at this point to be "right" including just making up your own dialog are mind boggling.  It leaves others just scratching their heads wondering if you are even serious or if it's just a reflex at this point. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by psolk

I guess no surprises there this time around 🙂

21 minutes ago, psolk said:

20% of 10 million people didn't migrate to XP after it's release!!

Not at all, X-Plane in total has some 30 million users across all platforms, a good portion of them don't get captured by the survey (as you can see from the very low percentage of X-Plane mobile users responding to the survey).

"A lot" are interested in XP12, my estimate is about 200k so far, but I don't take the numbers at face value.

24 minutes ago, psolk said:

Simply ludicrous to imply XP12 has taken 20% of 10 million pilots since it's release....

Its quite shocking yes.

Personally I doubt the 10 million MSFS pilots portion more than Navigraphs estimate that 20% of flight sim pilots have tried XP12...... But since that's heresy....