17 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Biggest flaw? It is worse than that. I am not sure quite what the point of this is? Does this happen in car racing sims? Someone builds a 911 but just bases it off a Ford fiesta engine and dynamics? Completely pointless. 

You are right, at least with some things.

 

But one thing is still certain today: CS still builds one of the best models and cockpits in terms of texturing and artwork in my opinion - by the way..

cheers 😉

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by pmplayer

Different strokes for different folks.

I've bought CS both in the past for FSX/P3D (usually when they had their sales), and now for MSFS (777, 767-400). I couldn't care less about their lack of accuracy or if they model the weight of twenty flying mastodons. I like their exterior and interior modelling. In short, they look good and that's what I want. I haven't gone for the -300 as yet, but I might.

We don't all want systems accuracy. I hesitated about buying the MD-11 recently in case it was so "accurate" that I wouldn't be able to fly it. Turned out to be ok for a "ctrl-e" guy like me. I bought it because I love the look of it.

If other folk want to study real life aircraft manuals, and perfect their techniques and piloting skills by endlessly replicating real life flights in real time, then that's fine by me. You couldn't pay me enough to get me to do that - that's not fun as far as I'm concerned, but I can see that a CS 777 would appall such folk. Doesn't bother me none though and value is in the eye of the beholder as well.

And as for 911s and Ferraris and the like, you couldn't pay me enough to take one of those either. Same principle - gorgeous lookers but too fussy and temperamental. Stick a Dino body on the workings of a Honda CRV and I'll have one (sorry Ian, not trying to induce a heart attack here <grin>)

(oh, but thinking about CS - when they can't even be *rsed to put a cockpit behind an exterior model that's when I just have to laugh. I wonder if they actually sold any of those? Even I like to sit inside the cockpit and look out of the window occasionally)

 

35 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

Different strokes for different folks.

I've bought CS both in the past for FSX/P3D (usually when they had their sales), and now for MSFS (777, 767-400). I couldn't care less about their lack of accuracy or if they model the weight of twenty flying mastodons. I like their exterior and interior modelling. In short, they look good and that's what I want. I haven't gone for the -300 as yet, but I might.

We don't all want systems accuracy. I hesitated about buying the MD-11 recently in case it was so "accurate" that I wouldn't be able to fly it. Turned out to be ok for a "ctrl-e" guy like me. I bought it because I love the look of it.

If other folk want to study real life aircraft manuals, and perfect their techniques and piloting skills by endlessly replicating real life flights in real time, then that's fine by me. You couldn't pay me enough to get me to do that - that's not fun as far as I'm concerned, but I can see that a CS 777 would appall such folk. Doesn't bother me none though and value is in the eye of the beholder as well.

And as for 911s and Ferraris and the like, you couldn't pay me enough to take one of those either. Same principle - gorgeous lookers but too fussy and temperamental. Stick a Dino body on the workings of a Honda CRV and I'll have one (sorry Ian, not trying to induce a heart attack here <grin>)

(oh, but thinking about CS - when they can't even be *rsed to put a cockpit behind an exterior model that's when I just have to laugh. I wonder if they actually sold any of those? Even I like to sit inside the cockpit and look out of the window occasionally)

 

All fair and well, but would you buy a Honda if it costs half a Ferrari (about 250.000 Euros)? Would you pay 125.000 Euros for a Honda? Because that's what you are in fact doing when you buy the CS 767 or 777 MSFS models for 30€ each (!), when you could buy a Fenix (which arguably is even easier to fly than a 767/777/747) for 60 Euros.

Wouldnt touch it with a barge pole

30 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

All fair and well, but would you buy a Honda if it costs half a Ferrari (about 250.000 Euros)? Would you pay 125.000 Euros for a Honda? Because that's what you are in fact doing when you buy the CS 767 or 777 MSFS models for 30€ each (!), when you could buy a Fenix (which arguably is even easier to fly than a 767/777/747) for 60 Euros.

The PMDG 737-600 is $35 so once the launch pricing for the CS767 expires it would be $5 cheaper

6 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

The PMDG 737-600 is $35 so once the launch pricing for the CS767 expires it would be $5 cheaper

This is not so much about dollars and cents as it is about the principle of not handing any money to that unscrupulous company with slapdashery as it benchmark for quality.

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by ErichB

2 minutes ago, ErichB said:

This is not so much about dollars and cents as it is about the principle of not handing any money to that unscrupulous company with slapdashery as it benchmark for quality.

Companies can ultimately make what they want and customers can buy what they want, I'm just pointing out it's not just trash, it's trash that manages to have a list price (if not a current price) more expensive than an actual quality product.

"Friends don't let friends buy Captain Sim products."

/although I was quite fond of their C130 for FSX. 

Would really love to see a quality dev release a c130.

18 hours ago, JYW said:

That's actually a really good idea.  If they became a 4th party developer and provided external models, where other devs then "functionalize" and add sounds to the aircraft, they'd probably develop a reputation for quality... in that single field of modelling!

 

Yes, the product is literally an external model, a cockpit model, then absolutely everything else is just aliased to the 747.    I have to say that I'm also frustrated with MS for this... they have absolutely zero standards for the marketplace.   If you go into the 'Aircraft' category, over half the products are just payware livery packs for the default aicraft!

It's just 100% focus on quick revenue, with 0% consideration for developing a longer-term sales stream through reputation, integrity and quality.  Simmarket went that way some time ago - and the MS Marketplace is just a carbon copy of Simmarket (except the latter do not encrypt files, so that at least you can attempt to fix some bugs!).

Releasing next week on Marketplace:

FSAir! .... enjoy more realistic air in your simulator.  Feel the breeze of (slightly more real) air on your aircraft!*

*NB. FSAir does not change the effect of air on the aircraft, and contains no visual features. Some users have reported it smells a little different to default MSFS air... like bacon. Or maybe burnt steak.

Become a FSAir! -head, only $39.99 / EUR 146.36 / £9,465.80

Hey, at least you nailed the exchange rate!

100% agree - CS has been scummy for about 5 years, I'd love to know where all the developers there went. The 737CL was an unexpected release, the 767 in P3D is alright I guess. Is it that they don't want to spend the time converting their programming over, or is it that they no longer have any programmers? Based on all the surface level content and 3D model expansion packs (the 777 expansion plans are horrifying), I'm going to guess the latter.

Not to defend the Marketplace bloat at all, but at least for XBox users, the only way to get a livery apparently is through the Marketplace. So, there will be a repaints market, but it shouldn't be as disgusting as it is today, with completely incorrect paints that look hand-drawn in Paint for $5.

The marketplace is the jewel of msfs for developpers.

CS Won't fool most of us, but I can garantee that they are making a killing in term of sales with their 777 and will rince & repeat with their 767.

First some users just want to fly something different and are not hard core users looking for study levels aircrafts. Then the fact that via the marketplace and the xbox users, they can reach a bigger number of custumers, honnestly I wouldn't be surprised that they sold more 777 than Fenix sold A320.

 

5 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

but would you buy a Honda if it costs half a Ferrari (about 250.000 Euros)? Would you pay 125.000 Euros for a Honda? Because that's what you are in fact doing when you buy the CS 767 or 777 MSFS models for 30€ each (!), when you could buy a Fenix (which arguably is even easier to fly than a 767/777/747) for 60 Euros.

First, none of this is addressed to you personally. Fioretoni. But I wanted to respond to the point here.

Yep. And that's exactly what I have done. A Fenix is of no interest to me at any price. If I wanted to fly an A320, I'd use the default. But I don't particularly like the look of that aircraft. If it was an aircraft I wanted (which will almost certainly be about looks - I'm shallow like that), then whether it had accurate systems/flight models etc would be of absolutely zero interest to me. If I thought it looked good, then next I'll consider - does it look good enough for me to pay the price they're asking? The only extra factor would be if the manufacturer was sufficiently snobbish about their product to insist I learn it properly before I could use it. In which case I'll pass on it.

Somebody else mentioned the cost of the PMDG 737-600 being similar to the CS planes. I thought it was more expensive, actually, although don't  have my receipt to hand, but either way it doesn't matter to me. Both aircraft models have exactly the same level of appeal to me, in that they are beautifully modelled and look gorgeous, and so are of equal value to me.

There have also been a few comments about people being fooled into buying CS models. I'm not sure how much that is true. Surely anybody who is "serious" about their desire to learn to fly and manage a tubeliner will at least take the time to read the description of the product before handing over money? And CS does at least describe their stuff accurately. And anyway, if an Xbox user (another one of the assumptions here seeming to be that they are all indiscriminating folk who will be easily "fooled" into parting with their money on the marketplace) decide to buy a CS 777, for instance, who's to say that they wouldn't still get a great amount of fun and pleasure out of that plane? And if they decide they want to learn to "fly it properly" then ok, they'll be actually learning to fly a 747 but so what? The principles are the same.

This all makes me sound like I'm CSim's number one fan or something. I'm not. I think they are a bad joke nowadays. BUT, they are selling products that are still acceptable to a vast number of people.

And anybody who replies saying something along the lines of - "yeah, people who don't know any better" should get down off their pedestal. Very few people look good on one of those.

(and as for cars, I've never paid more than a couple of thousand pounds for any car, but I spent 20-25 years driving big old Mercedes - 124/126 models. Lovely old beasts - as they say, they don't make 'em like they used to)

8 hours ago, andy1252 said:

....I couldn't care less about their lack of accuracy or if they model the weight of twenty flying mastodons. I like their exterior and interior modelling. In short, they look good and that's what I want. I haven't gone for the -300 as yet, but I might.

...

If you don't care about accuracy, then what exactly are you simulating?

There are better and cheaper options if you don't care about simulating reality:

1. A book with lots of pictures of planes and liveries
2. A travel book with lots of pictures of exotic places.
3. Another sim or older sim that you have with planes that have lots of liveries

Or just use a default MSFS plane to enjoy MSFS scenery. Cheaper still.... you can also just google interesting places.

The above may just be as stimulating as a simulator.

20 hours ago, Mace said:

In the meantime, I have a 12" fan.  What would you suggest I do with the fan right now to tide me over?  Should I blast it straight in my face, simulating a Curtiss Jenny flight?  Or place it across the room and have it gently blow caressing air towards me, as if I'm in an airliner with the bleed air turned on low?   

Since you have betatested FSAir, I figured you would have some unique insight for me.  Plus your NDA has been lifted, right?

I'm afraid Mr Mace, your fan will not come close to the effects provided by FSAir! , because the aforementioned addon simulates a sample of Fresh, high altitude Mongolian air, sampled at an altitude of 65,000 feet.  That is beyond the reach of most, and cannot be analogized by your fan.

Yes, my NDA is lifted, as of 4 seconds ago.  I can reveal that FSAir! is the greatest immersion additive I'm used since buying a joystick in 1953.   It's impossible to put into words, nor in any way describe the provided effect. Nor is there anything to see, that I can convey.   Nor hear.   Nor feel.    It's just amazing. 

I don't get the hype with anything visually past the 747 as far as Boeing series 757-787 all look like the same plane to me.

I'd rather just buy the best 3rd party addon version of the four. What is it that everyone dislikes about the default MSFS 787 to want and buy this CS 767?

I never cared to fly the default 787 personally and removed it along with most of the other default MSFS aircraft to save space.

 

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by blueshark747

12 hours ago, spinoza said:

If you don't care about accuracy, then what exactly are you simulating?

There are better and cheaper options if you don't care about simulating reality:

1. A book with lots of pictures of planes and liveries
2. A travel book with lots of pictures of exotic places.
3. Another sim or older sim that you have with planes that have lots of liveries

Or just use a default MSFS plane to enjoy MSFS scenery. Cheaper still.... you can also just google interesting places.

The above may just be as stimulating as a simulator.

Whatever happened to live and let live?
We are all different and because someone does not share your view does not make them better, or worse, than you are.
How does the world look from your particular lofty pedestal?

Edited February 8, 20233 yr by Reader