1 hour ago, DChockey08 said:

What is frustrating about these discussions on the forum is that people come here and say "MSFS is great but it's missing these key feature and that would make it so much better" and it's met with 10 responses "LMAO HAVE YOU SEEN THE NAVIGRAPH SURVEY MSFS RULEZ GO BACK TO P3D LOSER" 

This doesn't need to be tribal.

And it would be less common for people's natural preferences for one sim or another to descend into confrontation if this type of exchange were less common in other sim users' forums:

P3D user 1) MSFS is a game and the ratings agree with me

MSFS user) Navigraph shows most simmers actually prefer MSFS as their sim

P3D user 2) LOOK, WE'RE GETTING 10 RESPONSES CALLING P3D USERS LOSERS!

Edited March 19, 20233 yr by scotchegg

16 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

No pilot would make this statement.  Visibility needs to be very accurate for training and historical weather data is used for flight training ... it's how one learns the process of flight in all conditions.

Well, allow me to burst your bubble:  I've been flying for 30 years now.  I have over 16,000 hours, several type ratings, am currently a captain for a major U.S. airline, and have acted as a check airman on multiple types.  I've used level D sims as teaching tools, I'm going to guess a bit more than you have.  So you may need to reevaluate your understanding of this a bit.

Know what I've never done?  Use a menu item at an instructor station labeled "historical weather".  Can't say I've ever wished for one either.

Weather depiction in level D sims is nowhere near to the level of MSFS, because it does not have to be.  It's certainly important for an instructor to be able to control the weather experienced by students, but this is done by specifying a visibility, surface wind, and a few cloud layers.  These parameters are global.  There are no showers to fly through, etc.  There is no variable visibility at an airport - it's whatever the instructor sets it at, for the whole world.

This is exactly what's needed in the training environment; full instructor control of the weather with no variability.  Historical weather, or current real-world weather, serves no purpose.

@Stearmandriver Good one Andrew! Finally, someone laid it out on the line! “Historical weather, or current real-world weather, serves no purpose” It is what the instructor desires as variables to test or bring the student or pilot up to speed!

Edited March 19, 20233 yr by Doering

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

 

Weather depiction in level D sims is nowhere near to the level of MSFS, because it does not have to be. ...... important for an instructor to be able to control the weather experienced by students, but this is done by specifying a visibility, surface wind, and a few cloud layers. .... Historical weather, or current real-world weather, serves no purpose.

Great stuff @Stearmandriver.  Maybe this will also highlight to all those who think MSFS is just a Level D sim in waiting that in fact it is a game in the genre of simulation and it specifically simulates the experience of actually flying, not the experience of airline crew technical check rides in soulless motion simulators. The two are incomparable.  Of course what MSFS misses in motion (DOF builds notwithstanding) it makes up for in immersive visuals.  And, that's where we come back to the clouds because what we see is what makes us feel we are really there.  IRL I sometimes supernumerary crewed on maritime patrol aircraft in the SW Pacific and this image was not an uncommon site. Towering Cb, As and Ac. I like to simulate these flying experiences using patrols with the P8 Poseidon but until MSFS gets up to play with clouds it will always lack the the stature and awesomeness of these massive cloud formations and their textured Ac and As followers that we so nimbly but respectively danced around. Active Sky, Asobo, anyone is welcome to create this especially for those of us for whom St simply leaves us a bit....ummm....flat!!  Also some whispy Ci and some Cc popcorn cloud would be gratefully accepted!!    I simply don't understand why such an important visual aspect of flying has been left out of MSFS when it seems clear that technically it doesn't need to be. 🙁      

EDIT: I should elaborate that it is not the absence of Cb's in MSFS but rather the nuances of cloud types around them that really bring them to life. 

 

Cheers

Terry

Edited March 20, 20233 yr by Lord Farringdon

12 hours ago, Noel said:

And while we're here, currently in Steam MSFS currently sits at 76.78% average user rating with 10,419 users "in-game".  XP12 now gets an average user rating of 71.98% with a grand total of 419 users "in-game".   So you're right, XP-12 is definitey worse, as a "game"

Here we go again.  Another XP vs MSFS post.

The better one must be the more popular one.  Going by your logic.  Right?  

Wrong.

Gordon Ramsay has a chain of restaurants around the world.  Arguably one of the best chefs in the world.  And not short of a few quid.

Gordon Ramsay Group revenue is approximately $255 million per year.  

Source:  https://growjo.com/company/Gordon_Ramsay_Group

McDonalds yearly revenue?  $23 billion for the year ending 2022. 

Source:  https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/revenue

Which one is better?  Which one is more popular?  Which one makes better food?  

I'll leave that one with you.  

As for myself, MSFS and XP12 are just DIFFERENT.  They cater to different groups.  

Why is it a competition?

I know there will be some MSFS purists complaining, "So X-Plane is the Gordon Ramsay Group and MSFS is the McDonalds???"

So, a better example with closer comparisons.

Sure.

Burger King revenue for 2022.

$1.89 billion.  

Source:  https://www.statista.com/statistics/266462/burger-king-revenue/

McDonalds and Burger King have similar menus.  Both make garbage.  

Yet McDonalds outsells BK by 10:1.  Why?

Which one is better?

Neither.  They're just different.

Edited March 20, 20233 yr by GoranM

Get back on topic please. You know what will happen if you don’t.

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

(Gordon Ramsay is a foul mouthed TV personality whose food is extremely overrated. Yet people will pay anything just because he is famous. MacDonalds for me any day!😀)

Re Historical Weather. Could this not be achieved via a preset? ie a program would create a preset or series of presets based on historical metars?

XEnviro now seems to offer Historical Weather on MSFS. Have no need for this functionality, but there it is...

22 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

XEnviro now seems to offer Historical Weather on MSFS. Have no need for this functionality, but there it is...

And REX have plans to introduce some form of historical weather with their Weather Force app, unless anything has changed with it's roadmap?

29 minutes ago, Amon1973 said:

And REX have plans to introduce some form of historical weather with their Weather Force app, unless anything has changed with it's roadmap?

When there is a will, there is a way.

56 minutes ago, Amon1973 said:

And REX have plans to introduce some form of historical weather with their Weather Force app, unless anything has changed with it's roadmap?

It wouldn't be surprised if REX were to find a way to "hack" historical weather into the sim.

Some developers find creative solution to problems, other developers prefer to sing the song "Waiting for Asobo to fix......"

Edited March 20, 20233 yr by Ricardo41

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

Here we go again.  Another XP vs MSFS post.

The better one must be the more popular one.  Going by your logic.  Right?  

Wrong.

You yanked it out of context I never said anything about which one is the "better" sim.  My comment was a response to another's claim that MSFS was an "average game" based on consensus.  

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

You yanked it out of context I never said anything about which one is the "better" sim.  My comment was a response to another's claim that MSFS was an "average game" based on consensus.  

Well, I can now safely comment on MSFS in the MSFS forums, because I purchased the Standard edition earlier today.  And I'll keep it on topic.  The download and install was a bit of a hard slog.  But anyway, it's installed.

MY opinion.  ActiveSky needs to be added to MSFS.  For those who don't see a need for it, they don't have to use it.  But for people like myself, I would find great usage for it.

Expect a whole lot more posts from me based on the fact I now have it, and have begun to put it through its paces.

Going to be an adventure.  Don't worry, though.  I'll be objective.  Most of the time.

9 minutes ago, GoranM said:

MY opinion.  ActiveSky needs to be added to MSFS.  For those who don't see a need for it, they don't have to use it.  But for people like myself, I would find great usage for it.

Well it won't be so you are going to have to struggle on without it somehow. Welcome to the twenty first century! I look forward to your first MSFS plane.😀

Edited March 20, 20233 yr by jarmstro

6 minutes ago, GoranM said:

MY opinion.  ActiveSky needs to be added to MSFS.  For those who don't see a need for it, they don't have to use it.  But for people like myself, I would find great usage for it.

I remember you mentioning that you never felt the need for an external weather solution on X-Plane. Being an active user of both sims, I can confirm that the weather conditions on MSFS are, generally, more precise than XP12's when compared to current METAR conditions. I also rarely, if ever, experience weird artefacts when it comes to cloud generation on MSFS.

Therefore, it would be great if you could confirm why you feel the need to have AS on MSFS, but not on XP.