3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

You are starting to sound allot like someone that started another thread on FS HUD a couple of weeks ago raving about how great it was.  Interesting marketing?

 

Nope. Just someone passionate about AI/ATC. So I have high expectations for AI/ATC. Doing this for over 20 years as a simmer tends to give you a good idea of which products are most likely to deliver that. Everyone has different needs to fill within their FS experience. There's not a one shoe fits all solution. Don't let that Georgia humidity get to ya Bob! 

I suggest reading the linked thread below if people are interested in FSHud. For me personally the attitude of the developer is unbearable and he does not seem to recognize the shortcomings of his software, actually he actively tries to prevent them from being discussed publicly (actually they even deleted my access to FSHud after the discussion; luckily I was still in the 30-days-refund window... really do you want to buy a software that you might get locked out of when you discuss it on Avsim...?)

Now that thread has been locked for good reasons, but I think this is an important part of whether to recommend FSHud or not, so I think people should have the possibility to read up on it.

That said P2ATC is almost 8 years in development and is very mature in regards to technical stuff and reliability. Vectoring is flawless, it has simbrief integration and many many options to choose from. As of now I'd definitely recommend P2ATC (latest beta!) in combination with AIGround and AIFlow over at Flightsim.to.

39 minutes ago, russianspd said:

Nope. Just someone passionate about AI/ATC. So I have high expectations for AI/ATC. Doing this for over 20 years as a simmer tends to give you a good idea of which products are most likely to deliver that. Everyone has different needs to fill within their FS experience. There's not a one shoe fits all solution. Don't let that Georgia humidity get to ya Bob! 

Yeah, yeah, we know. The next version, and the version after that will have everything fixed and it will be the greatest ATC program in the entire  world, bar none..  Show us when it is finished.BTW, I started simming in 1985.  

29 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I suggest reading the linked thread below if people are interested in FSHud. For me personally the attitude of the developer is unbearable and he does not seem to recognize the shortcomings of his software, actually he actively tries to prevent them from being discussed publicly (actually they even deleted my access to FSHud after the discussion; luckily I was still in the 30-days-refund window... really do you want to buy a software that you might get locked out of when you discuss it on Avsim...?)

Now that thread has been locked for good reasons, but I think this is an important part of whether to recommend FSHud or not, so I think people should have the possibility to read up on it.

That said P2ATC is almost 8 years in development and is very mature in regards to technical stuff and reliability. Vectoring is flawless, it has simbrief integration and many many options to choose from. As of now I'd definitely recommend P2ATC (latest beta!) in combination with AIGround and AIFlow over at Flightsim.to.

Wait, 8 years of development and it can't recognize or include traffic other than the user? Looking at the user guide for how to operate the program it's 129 pages. Nobody is going to read 129 pages on how to use an ATC program to go from A-B. Even looking at the interface of the program and all of the different tabs and options immediately makes it look user unfriendly. Should be short and sweet and straight to the point. 

2 minutes ago, russianspd said:

Wait, 8 years of development and it can't recognize or include traffic other than the user? Looking at the user guide for how to operate the program it's 129 pages. Nobody is going to read 129 pages on how to use an ATC program to go from A-B. Even looking at the interface of the program and all of the different tabs and options immediately makes it look user unfriendly. Should be short and sweet and straight to the point. 

Seems to be the FS HUD promo, bash the other ATC programs.

Just now, russianspd said:

Wait, 8 years of development and it can't recognize or include traffic other than the user? Looking at the user guide for how to operate the program it's 129 pages. Nobody is going to read 129 pages on how to use an ATC program to go from A-B. Even looking at the interface of the program and all of the different tabs and options immediately makes it look user unfriendly. Should be short and sweet and straight to the point. 

Yes it can. No idea what makes you think otherwise. It cannot control it, if that's what you meant to say. Therefore I mentioned AIGround and AIFlow which prevent most of the stupid things the MSFS traffic engine does.

As for the rest, yes the UI is horrible, but the actual core is working great. I understand that people might get scared away from it, though.

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

Seems to be the FS HUD promo, bash the other ATC programs.

Nope. I don't care what people ultimately use. I'm just point out the flaws that I see in P2ATC, the biggest one being no ATC support for other traffic which by this stage in the game of FS should be a standard feature of any ATC product. I can give examples from FSHud if it would make you feel better. 

I bought FSHud a few days ago, I'm not a massive aviation person but do like a flight or two on Flight Sim now and again and I've found it pretty good so far, some bugs here and there but I like the frequent updates (too beginner for Vatsim!)

1 hour ago, russianspd said:

Wait, 8 years of development and it can't recognize or include traffic other than the user? 

To me, being able to actually speak to ATC is far more immersive and important, than whether or not AI are controlled by ATC.

I'd *like* for P2ATC to control AI but in my list of priorities, being able to speak to ATC controller is #1 on the list.

I tried FSHud a week or two ago. It wasn't for me, I happily returned to Pilot2ATC. 

Picking an ATC program is a very personal choice. It turned out that I don't care too much about traffic being managed, probably because I prefer smaller airports where traffic volume is low. Using voice for ATC communication is much more important to me, and that's why I prefer Pilot2ATC.

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

For me personally the attitude of the developer is unbearable

Truth be told... the dev (called FSHud, also over here) has a peculiar way of communicating and I understand where the idea comes from that he has an attitude. I myself do think he simply is extremely passionate about his program and that he doesn't really know how to use emoticons where needed. 😛 Having said that: a few days ago a guy named Dave has been added to the team ( I have no clue how many people actually are on the team...!) and he is now posting (supporting) on the FSHud forum in a very well manner. I do think 'they' know (the guy called) FSHud isn't the best at posting on forums and such and that they hired Dave to take care of that (more and more). Wise decision. Perhaps Dave will join over here too.

But in the end it is the program that matters... as long as the dev is (very) active and (very) supportive I don't really care what his attitude is or seems to be. 😉

I agree the developer has been very responsive. The number of updates and fixes over the past 2 months has been impressive. The one thing I do wish they would implement are step climbs. Going from 9K to 35K bugs me. That being said I have enjoyed it with the traffic and the runway holds for taxi. I wish they could somehow use ATC Chatter with an interrupt to stop the stepping on each other. The AI chatter is good but live recording is nice....

FSHud seems to be the best choice at the moment. The surrounding AI-Traffic is controlled and you don´t feel lonely out there. Some small hiccups in the latest betas though. But the update frequency is pretty high (at least one version per week I would say) and the program itself is pretty stable. It also works with FSTL-injected traffic pretty well.

One other small bug is that sometimes ground will not turn you over to tower until getting very close to runway as in going past the hold line and touching the runway. Example last night at KELP RWY 26.

For me here are my priorities for an ATC program...and I probably misspoke when I said speaking to ATC is #1.  Actually it's #2.  So my list of priorites/wants in an ATC program are:

1.  that ATC actually works (i.e. vectors properly, handoffs properly, SIDs/STARs, no weird altitude requests and CFIT's, etc.)
2.  that I can speak to ATC, not click or push buttons
3.  AI control
4.  variety of voices, regional accents, etc.

So as you can see, #1 is that it's...well...good ATC.   And notice I don't have UI on there.  I guess UI could be #5 but if I had #1-4 in an ATC program, I'd be really happy.

And you are not on an island by yourself.  I can leave on default ATC and listen to it talk to the AI's.  Or I can fire up LiveATC.net and listen to a nearby real-world ATC feed/chatter.  I never feel like I'm alone.