Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 - Announce Trailer

[UrgentSiesta 950]

3 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

A lot of histrionics, wild assumptions and passing them off as facts, etc etc.  Also, a bunch of info/answers are already in this thread and others yet people don't read anything and keep asking and worrying about the same Qs :).  In any case, I'll just re-iterate some points:

1) MS/Asobo never said that for 10+ years we'll keep getting free updates and we don't ever have to change the version of the base sim or pay for new ones. What they did say and reiterate multiple times after that is they are *committed* to MSFS, the franchise, and plan to stick around for a long time in developing it, enhancing it, and keep progressing it.  Even the "10" year thing was clarified multiple times afterwards to mean a "long" time, i.e. where Seb jokes how he expects MSFS to keep going even after he retires. 737 NG Driver also explains this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvJ_6r_6FWc

2) Just because this very first (of very many probably) teaser trailer meant for an XBox gaming showcase audience, shows and highlights only the missions DOES NOT therefore then mean those are the *only* new features/enhancements coming in MSFS 2024. It was already evident in the trailer the core engine has improvements. And recently Phil Spencer touched on 2024 improvements briefly in https://youtu.be/ZszOBVoREVg?t=8535 where he said graphics, weather, flight dynamics have all received improvements big enough to warrant a new release (i.e. the tornado in the trailer is actually simulated weather and atmosphere... also evident in the trailer is rising smoke that expands and distributes naturally in the atmosphere, seasons, 3d trees, foliage being impacted by local/nearby airflow, higher DEM and resolutions textures, etc etc). It is very likely that Asobo will be showcasing and diving deeper into all 2024 improvements in the coming days, likely by FSExpo time.

3) The oft shouted argument since the trailer has been: "well they should be fixing important core sim issues in 2020 rather than working on 2024!!" ... well, firstly they have a huge team and budget, so they can be doing multiple things at once. Secondly, core sim improvements *are* going into 2024 as per 2). Thirdly, how do you know the other core sim problem areas like ground handling, ATC, etc are not being worked on for release in 2024? Especially when MS/Asobo have stated multiple times in previous Q&As that they have started on reworking these areas? Is it not prudent to at least wait to hear about all the 2024 improvements before concluding the worst case scenarios?

4) The FAQ goes a long way to quell the worries about add-ons compatibility, and how they plan to support "virtually all" existing add-ons, and enforce MP add-ons to work in 2024 and not be charged extra.  Given such rules and enforcements, it therefore means the SDK and development frameworks are not changing radically. It also more crucially means that non-MP add-ons should also have no issues in being transferred over to 2024. Yes, if you really want to be paranoid and assume the worst, you can sit here breaking your head about how non-MP add-on devs are going to charge for the 2024 version etc etc.. but please, step back, think of the larger picture, that's just business suicide... and go by the words of devs who've already spoken up to say that any required updates will be free (PMDG, Fenix, FSReborn, Aerosoft, etc). As many of them rightly conclude, this should no different than making add-on updates between SU to SU for example.

5) Nobody has to blindly believe the PR departments of MS/Asobo obviously, but at the very least wait to hear more details from the Asobo devs themselves, see in-sim previews, etc before setting your hair on fire.

6) Another non-sensical claim by some is "oh no! they are making it more of a GAME by doing X, Y, & Z", i.e. missions ... so just because casual or more serious entertainment features are being added that therefore means the flight realism features are somehow magically or intentionally being reduced?? (and on an aside, these missions are not casual gamer stuff, it has to do with actual real-world aviation). It is yet another wild assumption to make, and it is not an either/or. Nowhere has it been confirmed that sim realism is being reduced on purpose, or that the features we have gotten so far in 2020 are being reduced or scaled back or whatever. And I'll just refer to 2) above again, you cannot just go by a first of many teaser trailer that happened to focus only on missions.

7) Nowhere have they said a subscription model is coming.. yet another long standing wild (and very wrong) assumption.

8 ) If it ends up being the case that some/most/all the long-standing core sim issues are only addressed in 2024, and that 2024 strives to make existing add-ons work seamlessly or with little change (as per the FAQ), and that 2024 is a superset of 2020 with non-trivial or significant updates for new tech (why would they intentionally remove 2020 features in 2024?), then is that really a bad situation if the only negative then is to pay $60/$90/$120 more to get the 2024 base sim? 

 

You don't honestly believe you're going to just barge in here spreading well supported, highly reasonable FACTS and expect to get away with it, do you? 😉

[DeepestRed 214]

The thing I keep coming back to is the people upset because "How DARE they work on a new sim when there are still things wrong with the current one?!"

There has never, in the history of flight simulation, ever, ever been a sim that was 100% feature complete and bug-free before the next iteration came out.  Never.

I'd go so far as to say it's likely that never in the history of software has the developer of a complex application obtained 100% bug-free feature completion before working on a new version.   It's just not practical.  Or even possible.

And, as some of the folks posting development history here have already shown, 2020 to 2024, for the history of the flight sim franchise, will actually be a longer than usual iteration, in the grand scheme of things.

To see people stomping their little feeties about that here is choice, it makes them look pretty irrational and foolish.  Angry children throwing their toys out of the pram, to borrow a phrase from our British friends.

 

...  so more of the usual for a good chunk of "serious" simmers, basically.  😆

Edited June 13, 2023 by DeepestRed

[jarmstro 2,406]

52 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Exactly WHAT "cult like devotion" are you referring to? Since when does recognition of outstanding achievement equate to "cultism"?

All you've been doing this entire thread is brag about your pessimist / glass-half-empty world outlook. And even since MS/Asobo have largely clarified that we're not all going to die from having to re-purchase our addons, you've still maintained your negativity.

Why, exactly, does Asobo "need to be brought down to earth"? Really: EXPLAIN IT.

The quality and value they've brought to Flight Sim completely outstrips nearly every aspect of every other flight sim. And in those cases where they're still behind, they've made undeniably substantial progress in catching up.

Would you prefer to go back to Prepar3D or X-Plane 11? Because that's EXACTLY where you'd be - if it weren't for the market disruption caused by MSFS.

And, hey, "buddy" - MSFS isn't even my preferred flight simulator. Chew on that for awhile...

p.s.: your "Only by keeping ALL their customers happy can they survive" is insanely simple minded.. Name ONE company that keeps "ALL" customers happy.

Calm down. It's just water off a ducks back to me.

There are many people expressing different opinions on this thread. Don't take it personally. Asobo do not need your help and certainly will not reward your loyalty.

I'm out.  I will not enter into personal mud slinging in this thread.
 

Edited June 13, 2023 by jarmstro

[The Flight Level 2,124]

6 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

They look like things people do in real life.

Absolutely! Every simulated game has had a starting point to depict human movement and activity. The people writing the code for these aviation career activities will have to be mindful of computer resources to optimize the visuals in tandem with the aircraft.

[UrgentSiesta 950]

13 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Calm down. It's just water off a ducks back.

There are many people expressing different opinions on this thread. Don't take it personally. Asobo do not need your help and certainly will not reward your loyalty.

Nor will they turn out to be the evil greedy scum you're so ready to repeatedly paint them as (despite all evidence to the contrary).

They've gotten $120 worth of Help and Loyalty from me, plus a smattering of shekels through the MP.

I've gotten way more out of the deal than they, so I'm all set - thanks! 🙂

And it's truly impressive to see your ability to remain consistent, even in the face of reality.

Edited June 13, 2023 by UrgentSiesta
grammar

[garlicbread11 335]

20 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Calm down. It's just water off a ducks back to me.

There are many people expressing different opinions on this thread. Don't take it personally. Asobo do not need your help and certainly will not reward your loyalty.

I'm out.  
 

12months later…….

 

nah, I’m all in in!

[Bigbluss 304]

I've got 1000 hours on MSFS and I spent £80 on it. If that's not a bargain I don't know what it is. Will happily buy an upgraded version if it's still a simulator.

 

Can't actually believe people are angry about releasing a new version four years on. And the same people complain about a potential subscription. Someone get these people to an economics 101 class.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Bigbluss

[ShawnG 1,823]

35 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

There are many people expressing different opinions on this thread. Don't take it personally. Asobo do not need your help and certainly will not reward your loyalty.
 

Asobo will provide a flight simulator for my money.  We’re not buying loyalty.  Message board doomers don’t provide me anything but a sad sort of amusement, not even the kind worth paying for, so….

[lwt1971 7,512]

2 hours ago, FPStewy said:

The issue for most is the "10 year supported commitment from the MS team"

The entire flight sim community experience no matter the sim was/is that as soon as a new version came out the previous was dropped near instant not only for the sim but for 3rd party. It's going to be difficult to "trust" in that commitment as sales and userbase drops because of FS24 and the commitment switches to the new. Now who's going to believe them when they come out and say FS24 will have a 10 year commitment.

Huh?? They never said for 10+ years that we'll keep getting free enhancements/upgrades/etc ... what they actually said, if one takes a few minutes to actually check rather than conspiracy theorize, is that they aim to remain committed to the MSFS franchise, the simulator, and to keep developing and enhancing it. Also that first statement mentioned 10 years but as they clarified multiple times afterwards, what they meant is a *long* time (i.e. not a one and done, the servers are not being shut down after a few years, they don't plan on pulling out of MSFS like they did after MS Flight, etc etc). Of course business is business, and anything can happen.

And if one actually stops to take stock of the facts and see how much resource MS has poured into MSFS, and apparently is continuing to pour... kinda sounds like they are sticking to that promise 3-4 years in doesn't it? If every few years they keep releasing an updated core sim with new tech, and perish the thought ask us to pony up $60-$120 for it, how can any sane person think that therefore means it's difficult to "trust" them?? Especially if they are making sure that add-ons don't have to be reworked each time? And it's unprecedented the amount of free stuff we have gotten so far in the last 3 years.

Yes the userbase will drop for MSFS 2020 while many move over to 2024... if some are refusing to pay $60-120 every few years for the newer sim version, well that's their loss.

Now if you are insisting that you want to be able to stay on 2020 forever (or 10+ years) without ever paying for a new base sim version, and expect the servers to support 2020 client machines for 10+ years... ya sorry that was never promised (but who knows, what MS/Asobo have at least said for now is that 2020 client machines will be supported after 2024 releases, could well be for a long time). But why would anyone not want to upgrade to the new base sim every few years to take advantage of improvements and new tech for a mere $60-$120 every 3-4+ years?
 

Edited June 13, 2023 by lwt1971

[edu2703 281]

Sometimes I feel a certain hypocrisy from many who are complaining. I bet that most users have already invested a lot more the simulator price in addons. There are addons that alone cost more than the simulator itself.

On the official forum, I read a comment from a person who said he had spent more than $1000 on addons and that it was absurd to have to pay for a new simulator. For me, this is the purest hypocrisy.

So' it's ok to spend $1000 in addons, it's ok to literally waste money on very low quality addons or addons that have been abandoned, but spending $60 every 4 years, people at Asobo are greedy exploiters? 

Before saying that buying a new simulator is absurd, first make the following calculation: Take the simulator price and divide it by 48, which is the number of months in 4 years. Then try to convince everyone that paying *checks note* $1.25/mo is absurd. And even putting the Premium Deluxe price, it's $2.5/mo. It doesn't matter where you live, both are small amounts. And notice that the equation doesn't include all the content given by Asobo for free.

In addition, there will be a gamepass option for those who cannot pay in one go.

[icewater5 181]

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

You don't honestly believe you're going to just barge in here spreading well supported, highly reasonable FACTS and expect to get away with it, do you? 😉

did you say FACTS, please confirm...   over

[threexgreen 3,160]

I don't know how people can keep up with all the nonsense that is being posted. I'm actually flabbergasted at how this simple 2 minute trailer has completely, entirely obliterated people's sense of reason, their ability to form a logical thought around this and even their reading comprehension skills. It's like barely anyone is interested in fact and logic as long as there is an opportunity to be dramatic to the point you can't have a normal conversation.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Nixoq

[Dermot McClusky 528]

I've read through a lot of pages of discussion. In the immortal words of the Neutrals from Futurama:
"All I know is my gut says 'maybe.'"

We've got months to get details about the release. Meanwhile I'm climbing out of EGLC on my way to ESSA and generally enjoying life. I think it's great for customers to push companies for info, but it was just a teaser trailer. Deep breath and relax. We'll get more info in due time. If they really *** it up in the future, then it sucks and you move on with life. I don't suspect they'll mess it up that bad, but nothing's impossible. 

On another note: I looked at the view counts on the Xbox Youtube channel and MSFS2024's teaser trailer is one of the most viewed...by a long shot. The Starfield trailer has 201k, Forza has 316k, and MSFS2024 is almost up to 600k.

It would be extremely foolish to extrapolate YT trailer views to actual purchases and usage, but it's exciting to me to see that kind of interest in it.

 

[Fiorentoni 4,471]

1 minute ago, Nixoq said:

Not trying to be dramatic myself... But I don't know how people can keep up with all the nonsense that is being posted. I'm actually flabbergasted at how this simple 2 minute trailer has completely, entirely obliterated people's sense of reason, their ability to form a logical thought around this and even their reading comprehension skills. It's like barely anyone is interested in fact and logic as long as there is an opportunity to be dramatic.

On the other side, it's great to see how many people are literally attached to MSFS and happy about how it is right now (me included). A new sim (version) could therefore be to their detriment. Do you remember back in the early 2020/2021 when people were anxious before a SU update dropped, praying to the lord that they could still fly afterwards and their addons were still working and not all control settings lost and all without CTDs? Some people would rather not go back there or take the risk of going back there. That's where most of the negativity comes from. Flight sim heaven is a fragile place...

[Dermot McClusky 528]

3 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

 A new sim (version) could therefore be to their detriment. 

COULD be. You're absolutely 100% right, it could be. 

I recently took an exam for my profession---it was something I had to do for credentialing (obligatory from my employer). I walked out of the exam feeling very unsure of my performance, and my mind naturally wanted to explore every negative outcome. I took a breath, realized what was done was done, and waited for more information (ended up being great, but that's not the point).

I get it, the natural response is to think about the worst case scenario, but it's such a waste of emotional energy to get super stressed out about something for which we don't have the information yet. We will eventually, it just requires some patience. It was just a teaser trailer, it wasn't meant to be anything more than something to drum up "hype."  (NOTE: I'm not saying people don't have the right to discuss it and make guesses about what's coming. That's why these forums exist, in part. Just...some restraint before the sky starts falling, ya know?).