8 hours ago, aniiran said:

I guess my issue us that I haven't seen anything groundbreaking...yet.

Do you perhaps mainly fly in the USA? What default ATC does NOT do is use the correct transition altitudes: it uses 18.000 ft all over the world. It also uses inches all over the world while hPA is used almost everywhere outside of the US. Default ATC also doesn't use FAA and ICAO terminology (where appropriate). The fact that you say you need to ignore things exactly shows what's wrong with default ATC. And calling out descent points every time while flying a STAR...? Is that realistic? And what about the limited amount of devault voices, switching frequencies way too often, disregarding terrain...? Obviously default ATC also has no speech recognition.

If default ATC works for you then that's great but for most people it doesn't work too well. 😉

On 7/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, vbazillio said:

Indeed, it's about AI in the context of this discussion on B-ATC. And we can imagine whatever we want. But here, it's about what a new ATC addon 😉 can really deliver or not.

Good point.

It's a promising addon with a promising video. It's not released yet. Besides, my atc program already does IFR/VFR, AI recognition (on taxiways). Adding some voice packs and atc chatter really adds to the mix. The stuff isn't cheap so if this new program does everything that pilot2atc can do, and then more....for a cheaper overall price....then sure. I'm in.

Until then, it's best to wait for release and reviews.

6 hours ago, rob0203 said:

Another one:

Still glad I was not aboard his airplane taking off with flaps 10 and the speedbrake armed

Actually you wouldn't have taken off at all. You crashed into a single engine prop aircraft that apparently just landed on runway 29 while you were lining up for takeoff on runway 11 - without ATC even taking any notion of it.

The voice recognition and speech AI certainly is amazing and it all sounds very promising.

However this video once again showcases why it is essential for an ATC addon to control the AI traffic as well. What's the use of the most realistic voice recognition / speech AI ATC if you crash into an AI aircraft that is independently using the opposite runway when you are cleared to line up? That is a complete immersion breaker - no matter how good the ATC speech / chat AI is.

I just hope the developers of B-ATC will take into consideration to control the AI traffic as well - now that it has been pointed out to them that FSHud and presumably VoxATC already do that.

 

Edited July 11, 20232 yr by RALF9636

17 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Actually you wouldn't have taken off at all. You crashed into a single engine prop aircraft that apparently just landed on runway 29 while you were lining up for takeoff on runway 11 - without ATC even taking any notion of it.

The voice recognition and speech AI certainly is amazing and it all sounds very promising.

However this video once again showcases why it is essential for an ATC addon to control the AI traffic as well. What's the use of the most realistic voice recognition / speech AI ATC if you crash into an AI aircraft that is independently using the opposite runway when you are cleared to line up? That is a complete immersion breaker - no matter how good the ATC speech / chat AI is.

I just hope the developers of B-ATC will take into consideration to control the AI traffic as well - now that it has been pointed out to them that FSHud and presumably VoxATC already do that.

 

I see it know yes,  skipped to fast through the video first time.

Apperently BeyondAtc has a different runway in use then the AI Traffic.

Was already wondering why there was a airvraft at the wrong holding point during takeoff.

42 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Actually you wouldn't have taken off at all. You crashed into a single engine prop aircraft that apparently just landed on runway 29 while you were lining up for takeoff on runway 11 - without ATC even taking any notion of it.

The voice recognition and speech AI certainly is amazing and it all sounds very promising.

However this video once again showcases why it is essential for an ATC addon to control the AI traffic as well. What's the use of the most realistic voice recognition / speech AI ATC if you crash into an AI aircraft that is independently using the opposite runway when you are cleared to line up? That is a complete immersion breaker - no matter how good the ATC speech / chat AI is.

I just hope the developers of B-ATC will take into consideration to control the AI traffic as well - now that it has been pointed out to them that FSHud and presumably VoxATC already do that.

 

I noticed that the light aircraft landing on runway 29 was in fact using the correct runway for the weather conditions, as witnessed by the windsock. So I assume that means that B-ATC was using a different weather (and ATIS?) source to FS2020.

Even if thie B-ATC source was more accurate, in terms of "real life", it seems pointless if it contradicts the sim traffic AI datasource.and resulting behaviour.

 

Edited July 11, 20232 yr by Vel

22 minutes ago, rob0203 said:

I see it know yes,  skipped to fast through the video first time.

Apperently BeyondAtc has a different runway in use then the AI Traffic.

Was already wondering why there was a airvraft at the wrong holding point during takeoff.

Striking the youtuber didn't even mention it as well, neither the crash with the landed aircraft nor the other AI aircraft ready to go at runway 29 while he was taking off from runway 11.

Maybe he considers that as normal as conducting a takeoff with the config alarm ringing.

People seem to have got used to the crappy AI engine and ATC acting independently from AI aircraft so that they don't even put it into question any more when it comes to ATC.

And this is not something that has to do with early access or work in progress. If B-ATC won't control the AI traffic things like that will happen with the finished product as well.

I hope B-ATC will do better than that. Would be a shame if not with that great speech / voice recogntion / chat AI.

 

 

Edited July 11, 20232 yr by RALF9636

MSFS ATIS not matching METAR is a known bug, there are threads about it in the official forum. Asobo didn't fix it yet.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/atis-not-matching-metar/564725/2

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/atis-and-metar-not-the-same/496612

"ATC assigns wrong runways with wind direction" is on the bugs lifetime list for some time with a status of "Planned".

BeyondATC is assigning the correct runway based on METAR, but MSFS ATC assigns the wrong runway to AI traffic based on the bugged ATIS, so you get what we saw in the video.

If Asobo fixes the ATIS, MSFS ATC will start assigning the correct runway to AI traffic and that won't happen anymore.

4 minutes ago, Alvega said:

If Asobo fixes the ATIS, MSFS ATC will start assigning the correct runway to AI traffic and that won't happen anymore.

IMO these are fairly easy things to fix, it's just not been done yet.  This is why I ask, what needs to change w/ default ATC to get it essentially good enough for the masses?  My sense is it's really not that far off but that many assume they either don't know how to do this, or don't care to ever do ito, because it's not been done yet here nearly 3y into it.  That was Fiorentoni's comment recently, that he doubts it will ever get 'done', however vaguely 'done' is defined here.

Once again:  what needs to change w/ default ATC to get it essentially good enough for the masses?

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

IMO these are fairly easy things to fix, it's just not been done yet.  This is why I ask, what needs to change w/ default ATC to get it essentially good enough for the masses?  My sense is it's really not that far off but that many assume they either don't know how to do this, or don't care to ever do ito, because it's not been done yet here nearly 3y into it.  That was Fiorentoni's comment recently, that he doubts it will ever get 'done', however vaguely 'done' is defined here.

Once again:  what needs to change w/ default ATC to get it essentially good enough for the masses?

I think simmers have no idea how complicated it is to get an ATC to work well. Some ATC programs have been around for many years, and they are still being tweaked and modified. To expect a developer to accomplish something so complex and a year or two, is unrealistic. 

The metar issue has been around for quite sometimes. Just curious for those like myself that use REX WF, it seems to have the wind correct most of the time. I have seen sometimes that it does not but mostly does it correctly.

Just an FYI, Captain (B-ATC Dev) said that he could pour resources into controlling AI, but he doesn't know if MSFS-2024 will do that for him next year, and so he's choosing to pour resources into other parts of ATC instead of gambling that Asobo won't fix the issues with AI aircraft.

It sounds like he's suggesting that if Asobo doesn't fix it for MSFS 2024, he'll fix it himself, but doesn't want to do it if Asobo is going to do it anyway.

28 minutes ago, WestAir said:

Just an FYI, Captain (B-ATC Dev) said that he could pour resources into controlling AI, but he doesn't know if MSFS-2024 will do that for him next year, and so he's choosing to pour resources into other parts of ATC instead of gambling that Asobo won't fix the issues with AI aircraft.

It sounds like he's suggesting that if Asobo doesn't fix it for MSFS 2024, he'll fix it himself, but doesn't want to do it if Asobo is going to do it anyway.

Sounds reasonable. MSFS is kind of a moving target. Exciting times for simming.

Edited July 11, 20232 yr by RALF9636

1 hour ago, cchiozza said:

The metar issue has been around for quite sometimes. Just curious for those like myself that use REX WF, it seems to have the wind correct most of the time. I have seen sometimes that it does not but mostly does it correctly.

The only thing with the METAR programs is that the weather changes suddenly. What I like about the Msfs weather is that you really feel like flying into a weather system instead of suddenly a new sky in one second.

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think simmers have no idea how complicated it is to get an ATC to work well. Some ATC programs have been around for many years, and they are still being tweaked and modified. To expect a developer to accomplish something so complex and a year or two, is unrealistic. 

What exactly is "works well?" Once again, what needs to change to get it to good enough for the masses?  I'm part of the masses, not a RW pilot, with little experience beyond RadarContact which I used for a while in FSX but lost interest in its poor concatenation and extra need to set it up preflight to make it jive.  I don't like that I'd like something well integrated.

I find default ATC has made some very visible improvements.  No longer do I get yo-yo climb/descent calls as I did for a long time initially.  I've haven't been vectored into a mountain for ages.  This morning departing from EKCH there was ample traffic heading for the same takeoff runway ATC sends me to, and all of them were sequenced perfectly.  I was 4th in line.  One approaching flight was given a go-around.  Rarely am I as a live user given a go-around, though it was common initially--it appears they defer to the live user to manage traffic flows thankfully.  I don't know what else they can do or any program can do in that regard because for starters it's accepting incoming real traffic (more or less), and as a live user I may well pause the sim for 10 minutes and return, so it must cope w/ these vagaries.   

For Asobo to align METAR with correct runway(s) is not nuclear fusion science, it's just not been done yet.  I can see Asobo using AI to get an array of new voices based on geographic region they certainly have inside access to AI at some level.

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

One approaching flight was given a go-around.

Did it actually perform the go around? I use FSLTL to inject the traffic. It did correctly give a go around for an aircraft while I was lined up and waiting. That plane just went LOL No and landed anyway.

The air traffic control needs to actually control. If I am expecting vectors (usually noted in the MCDU flight plan) it should be vectoring me. When I tell it to give me vectors, I think it just says "go direct to <waypoint name> if an ATC program can't control the AI craft, it at least needs to be aware of them, and their flight plan, and steer me around them. Too often it tells me "Line up and wait. Traffic is airbus on final" and then tells the airbus to land. It's not an FSLTL issue I think, since after it injects it the AI just takes them over i think.