6 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I made a fool of myself when stating a fact?

Forums are for discussion.  Saying I make a fool out of myself just because you disagree with me is hardly conducive to a discussion.  

Hopping on, trying to discredit what I say based on motives is not conducive to the discussion and you did indeed make a fool of yourself because what you asserted was proven false in the thread before you even made your comment. You calling it a factual statement makes your comment sound even more foolish.

2 hours ago, Krakin said:

i must say I really like how  XP12's high level clouds are depicted compared to MSFS. They look a lot more convincing

I'm quoting it again since you still missed it apparently......

5 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Hopping on, trying to discredit what I say based on motives is not conducive to the discussion and you did indeed make a fool of yourself because what you asserted was proven false in the thread before you even made your comment. You calling it a factual statement makes your comment sound even more foolish.

I'm not trying to do anything.  Your interpretations are beyond my control.  If you can't handle a tongue in cheek comment, then 🤷‍♂️

5 minutes ago, Krakin said:

I'm quoting it again since you still missed it apparently......

Good for you.

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by GoranM

13 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

So do I, but in the meantime that part of the scenery ‘sucks’, because it’s an awful feature of it. 

Yup, I'm not saying the morphing does not suck. It does. At the same time I do not want Asobo to fall back on the methods used in the other sims, for higher fidelity to be taken off the table. I want them to keep their ambitions and find a fix.

 

18 minutes ago, MarcG said:

It's great he finally acknowledged it, but SU5 was released on the 27th July 2021, so almost two and a half years later, sad considering it was one of the very first things picked up and reported on the official site at the time.

The issue with SU5 clouds was very bad color banding. Opacity was still ok. The opacity issue really reared its head after METAR integration. SU7 made the clouds look really, really ugly and actually....too dense with very bad shapes. Asobo then over corrected and made the clouds too transparent though their depiction greatly improved overall compared to the horror show SU7 introduced. So I'd say this specific issue started from SU8.

That's still 1 year 9 months ago...

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

You're expecting a positive comment from abrams and krakin?

So we can expect the first positive comment from you soon(ish)? And also a positive comment from Ian is a rare sight.

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by fsiscool

16 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Yup, I'm not saying the morphing does not suck. It does. At the same time I do not want Asobo to fall back on the methods used in the other sims, for higher fidelity to be taken off the table. I want them to keep their ambitions and find a fix.

The issue with SU5 clouds was very bad color banding. Opacity was still ok. The opacity issue really reared its head after METAR integration. SU7 made the clouds look really, really ugly and actually....too dense with very bad shapes. Asobo then over corrected and made the clouds too transparent though their depiction greatly improved overall compared to the horror show SU7 introduced. So I'd say this specific issue started from SU8.

Absolutely... Morphing was a consequence of their performance improvements I guess, and if they can fix that in future MSFS 2020 SUs that'd be great. At the very least I'd expect improvements in v2024 given all the performance enhancements coming there like thinner client, proper multi-threading and parallelization of compute-intensive tasks, etc. Keep up the lofty goals and pioneer new methods rather than falling back to legacy methods, 100% on board with that.

In terms of the clouds yes it was the SU7 METAR integration that degraded live weather, although yes they've definitely improved a lot since the fugly initial SU7 state. Good thing is that the MSFS weather/clouds engine is still perfectly capable of the varied cloud types as seen via manually configured weather. Let's see what else they can do to keep improving live weather to fully use what the MSFS 2020 engine is capable of (at least good that the opacity/density issues was acknowledged in the last Q&A). Clouds and weather (be it live or manual) is still heads and shoulders above anything else out there, it's just that some of us prefer pre-SU7 MSFS to post-SU7 MSFS 🙂 
 

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by lwt1971

7 minutes ago, fsiscool said:

So we can expect a positive comment from you soon?

About what?  MSFS?

I've said it more times than I can count.  MSFS is a very good flight sim.  It's got a few issues, but what software doesn't?  

In fact, @Biology and I discussed his environmental lighting mod for MSFS when he first did it.  I told him, and I'm paraphrasing, "It looks great.  That'll be a welcome modification, I think."

My only gripe, which is what I told him, is he didn't ask for a small cut from Asobo.  It's a very valuable mod, as evidenced by the 60+ pages on the topic.  He's a much better person than me.  He just wants people to have good qualities in a sim.  He's always been like that.

Several people have asked me why I don't make add ons for MSFS, and why do I hate MSFS so much?

I've said it publicly.  I don't hate MSFS at all.  I bought it last year to experiment with.  However, this isn't the place to outline the reasons why I don't make add ons for it.

If you want to discuss it privately, away from this forum and it's topic, I'm happy to do so.

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by GoranM

10 minutes ago, GoranM said:

In fact, @Biology and I discussed his environmental lighting mod for MSFS when he first did it.  I told him, and I'm paraphrasing, "It looks great.  That'll be a welcome modification, I think."

My only gripe, which is what I told him, is he didn't ask for a small cut from Asobo.  It's a very valuable mod, as evidenced by the 60+ pages on the topic.  He's a much better person than me.  He just wants people to have good qualities in a sim.  He's always been like that.

It indeed does look superb, and it's great that he was able to point out the incorrect parameters to the underlying scientific techniques both MSFS and XP were using. I'm curious, did you have the same gripe when he provided a similar fix to X-Plane and wish he'd asked for a small cut from Laminar? https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/637454-potential-improvements-for-sky-colors/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-5006056
 

 

6 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I'm curious, did you have the same gripe when he provided a similar fix to X-Plane and wish he'd asked for a small cut from Laminar?

Absolutely!  In fact, my direct quote to him in discord was (copy/pasted):

Even if Austin asked me for something, I'm getting paid

The discussion was quite a long one, but I made it very clear, if he has something valuable that can be used in ANY software, ask to be paid for it.

@Biology feel free to chime in, if you feel you need to.

And, a side note.  I think his work is so valuable, I purchased his enhanced skyscapes mod for X-Plane, purely to support his work.  It's Windows only.  I own a Mac.

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by GoranM

Given that we're talking about the atmospheric lighting and the dev Q&A in this thread, good to keep in mind that Biology's work was a great kickstart to MS/Asobo fixing this in SU14, but Asobo's fix is not a direct changing of the parameter values but more a partial backport of their re-written atmospheric engine from v2024 looks like. From the latest Q&A https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/november-dev-stream-2023-transcription/619372

Q: Seb, I’m sure you want to go over this one. One of the community questions was, can you take us on the journey from the moment the new sky color thread started to the moment we got it in the Sim update 14 beta?

A (Seb): Yeah, a lot of things happened at the same time. Our team here completely reworked the atmospheric simulation for Flight Simulator 2024, and among the improvements are the horizon line, which is fixed. It improves the way the scattering works. At the same time, there was this thread where people found, “Hey, the values of the ozone are not perfectly matched.” So what we did is, actually, the new engine works differently, so it’s not something where we can exactly match the values. But what we did is we implemented them back into 2020. When we reviewed and tested the build a bit, we found that the scenery was already a bit greenish before the change, and that got worse with the fixed ozone layer. The world was exaggeratedly green, so we went back and checked. In the reworked atmospheric scattering, we have a different sun color, which is more accurate, and we moved that back into 2020. Here you can see the daytime, so you see much more the effect of the sun color—old and new. Maybe you can switch back and forth a little bit. You will see that it’s not as green. When you stare at one image, you sort of don’t see it, but when you switch, you see, “Oh yeah, okay, the old one was really greenish-blueish unrealistic, and the new one is actually realistic.” If you continue, you can see the effect of the ozone layer, which is really visible in the evening. Here, the old one is very pink, as it’s been for four years in 2020, and the new one is much more realistic, with still some pink but a lot more blue and realistic colors.

I’ve seen a lot of people continue to read and analyze what people say after this was out in Beta, and people were trying to find the values in the data of the executable to be surprised that they didn’t find the exact same values. That’s normal because they are not. What we tried to do is to have the same effect, so I think the result should be the same as with the values that you were putting. But because of the way we did the system, it’s as if it was scaled completely differently. That’s why you can’t find exactly the same value, but the effect should be the same. It’s not like we changed to make it more red or more blue or something. It’s the same result even though the value is not the same. But I would say thank you for the thread; it was an inspiration. So, hey, this is us working together. I think it’s great.
 

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by lwt1971

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

tongue in cheek comment

With all due respect, I interpreted your comment as dead serious too, probably because you are right, lol. I do understand their point of view though, as much as I understand yours. Being passionate about your sim of choice is something I highly respect. And it adds a little extra spice to reading the various forums 😁

36 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Absolutely!  In fact, my direct quote to him in discord was (copy/pasted):

Even if Austin asked me for something, I'm getting paid

The discussion was quite a long one, but I made it very clear, if he has something valuable that can be used in ANY software, ask to be paid for it.

@Biology feel free to chime in, if you feel you need to.

And, a side note.  I think his work is so valuable, I purchased his enhanced skyscapes mod for X-Plane, purely to support his work.  It's Windows only.  I own a Mac.

You already told the entire story so there's not much left for me to tell.

Honestly yeah, given how much research it took I probably should've done what you said. My reasoning was that I really wanted to have it added to both sims as I was really annoyed by the purple skies, and the best chance of achieving that was making it free, open source and easy to implement. In the end as much as I'm a developer I'm also a simmer, and the purple skies were really taking the enjoyment out of the sims.

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by Biology

6 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

With all due respect, I interpreted your comment as dead serious too, probably because you are right, lol. I do understand their point of view though, as much as I understand yours. Being passionate about your sim of choice is something I highly respect. And it adds a little extra spice to reading the various forums 😁

Well, when I make a tongue in cheek comment, it does have some truth to it.  As you said, you agreed with me anyway.  But I mixed a truthful comment with a bit of humour while poking a bit of fun.  

58 minutes ago, fsiscool said:

And also a positive comment from Ian is a rare sight.

I make lots of positive comments. The issue is Avsim tends to drag you in to these negative schoolfights, of which I admit I am guilty of at times. It's a frustrating place sometimes. 

Well, that's a typical MSFS thread. Mentioning advantages of other sims aren't usually appreciated in those. 😉

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