For those who have used both APL and Star Alliance, what does SA offer that you prefer over APL?   I've always been a slightly miffed w/ APL for a couple of reasons including its schedule generator its goofy pause penalty to name the top two.  Couldn't find how SA scores flights while looking at their website.

44 minutes ago, Noel said:

For those who have used both APL and Star Alliance, what does SA offer that you prefer over APL?   I've always been a slightly miffed w/ APL for a couple of reasons including its schedule generator its goofy pause penalty to name the top two.  Couldn't find how SA scores flights while looking at their website.

You named it:

- No schedule generator in SA, you choose your flights freely (out of the alliance's airlines' real life schedules; there are all three alliances however with the same layout and by the same creators/managers: https://staralliancevirtual.org/ https://skyteamvirtual.org/ https://oneworldvirtual.org/). There are many many options with different bonuses (e.g. bringing an aircraft back to the hub gives double points, doing the return flight within 24h gives +50% points etc.), you can choose between regular routes or do tours (they got a lot of them, really fun!) or do delivery flights every once in a while (new real life aircraft being delivered to airlines e.g. from KBFI or LFBO); there's really much more variety in comparison to doing those APL KJFK-KDEN-KBOS-KJFK-KDCA-KDEN-KFJK schedules.
It's really APL's biggest downside that things can and will eventually get boring and repetitive with the schedule generator, even if you change airlines every 7 days. Those alliances VA will not get boring, and you can even roleplay here: E.g. your current/last location is saved, you so could make the house rule for yourself to only book a flight from where you left off last time (tours work similarly with continous flights). Or if you feel like grinding points you can search for bonus flights (see above) only and just take them all over the world.

- You can do up 30 minutes of pause every flight and in unfortunate circumstances (children at home not wanting to go to bed *cough*) also longer (you can generally add a comment or talk with the guys reviewing the pireps, if something has gone wrong; they are very understanding, e.g. I totally forgot the logging of one flight and they manually added it after I showed them my Volanta screenshot; APL does it all by an algorithm so no lenience there). They won't accept time accelartion under no circumstances, though (except for when accidentally hitting the wrong key of course)

- The websites' layout is great. I mean, it even has color (unlike APL) 😄

- These VAs also do the dispatch for you: They tell you the amount of PAX and Cargo (both based on real life airline data statistics) and your cost index. They prefill a Simbrief flightplan with those values and you can adjust it afterwards as usual, like APL does but with more data given.

- As for flight scoring, see this example (this is just a random person, not myself): https://skyteamvirtual.org/flights/01hmc7w76nmn5wp17r26zsxpdc  (you might have to register to see the page, not sure). You could also read this manual: https://vasystem.org/support/flight-scoring/

- You can substitute aircraft you don't have, but not as freely as in APL (where you can fly whatever you want, no matter the scheduled flight). E.g. you can substitute 757/767/777 freighter flights with the A300, but not 747 freighter flights. You can substitute all CEOs for NEOs and all NGs for MAXs and viceversa. You can also do business flights (via the "charter flight" method) as you like with whatever biz jet you like (even the Hondajet, I explicitly asked them 🙂 ), though you need to have some plausibility (e.g. the used airports should have business traffic in real life).

I suggest registering on one of those alliances and playing around a bit with the website and see if you like looking for flights etc.

EDIT: Also for numbers overall: If you count all three alliances together they have about the same number of active pilots (around 10000) and flights per day as does APL. They also seem to be growing fast in numbers and popularity, but I have no data for this, just a *feeling*. That said the community aspect is not yet as deep as in APL, also because they have 3 discords (one for each alliance) instead of 1 discord like APL. There's less activity on discord compared to APL. That said APL discord is like 50% people complaining about the schedule generator, so there's that 😄

 

Edited January 17, 20242 yr by Fiorentoni

38 minutes ago, Noel said:

For those who have used both APL and Star Alliance, what does SA offer that you prefer over APL?   I've always been a slightly miffed w/ APL for a couple of reasons including its schedule generator its goofy pause penalty to name the top two.  Couldn't find how SA scores flights while looking at their website.

Funny you ask because I just joined SA. I like apl but the schedule generator drives me nuts. It gets tiring refreshing it 100 times to find a schedule I like instead of an airport I’ve flown to dozens of times before. Kind of want to just pick my own routes at this point. It was fun earning for new licenses and such early but after a certain point when you have them all It’s meh. I do miss time acceleration in apl for cruise when I’m short on time. 

Edited January 17, 20242 yr by sfgiants13

10 minutes ago, sfgiants13 said:

Funny you ask because I just joined SA. I like apl but the schedule generator drives me nuts. It gets tiring refreshing it 100 times to find a schedule I like instead of an airport I’ve flown to dozens of times before. Kind of want to just pick my own routes at this point. It was fun earning for new licenses and such early but after a certain point when you have them all It’s meh. I do miss time acceleration in apl for cruise when I’m short on time. 

I looked at this app a few times, and to me, it is overly confusing. APL lets you pick an airline, select the length of flight and the aircraft, and you are good to go. To me, this SA just adds a great deal of confusion, with very little benefit that I can see, over just any VA you could join. 

Thanks Fiorentoni, great overview!  And SFG you too!  I'm liking the pause 30 minutes total option that should take care of most needs.  BUT...from SFG's comment, is time acceleration not an option in SA?  TBH that is a very useful work around for APL's pause penalty and since realizing it was an option the pause penalty is pretty much gone away.

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

I looked at this app a few times, and to me, it is overly confusing. APL lets you pick an airline, select the length of flight and the aircraft, and you are good to go. To me, this SA just adds a great deal of confusion, with very little benefit that I can see, over just any VA you could join. 

After the nice overviews I think there isn't a very compelling reason for to leave APL for the following reasons:

• Can use time acceleration to get around the goofy pause penalty in APL.  So no benefit with SA there if it's true acceleration isn't allowed in SA
• Since APL offered the option to fly any valid route under the Tools menu one can effectively lose the scheduler.  This might work fine for me since earnings and points are meaningless for me.  I did find value in having a schedule (that I actually like!) since it has me flying to airports I've never heard of, and that's been a nice feature of having a schedule.  Maybe APL with their freq requests to revise the thing they may actually act, maybe....
• Scoring with SLC is very complete and covers more than flight dynamics.  Looking at SA's scoring I don't see any benefit there over SLC + APL's scoring which covers plenty.

Thanks all I will hold pat for the moment.

Cheers

5 minutes ago, Noel said:

BUT...from SFG's comment, is time acceleration not an option in SA?

Pretty much all of the VAs out there forbid time acceleration. There may be some that allow it, but all the ones I am on forbid it.

The overall scoring for the Alliance VAs is, well, interesting. Anything over a 70% rating is rejected, but you need to work pretty hard to get under that. I had a flight where I failed a go around and landed in someone's pool. I got a 68% because in addition to all the other stuff, I didn't shut the engines down.

The aircraft subsitution is very lenient. You can get a list of allowed subs here: https://vasystem.org/support/aircraft-substitutions/

It's fun to accumulate the points, and I enjoy the VA and the tours as well as the community in general. I think the VA is a good option for folks who don't have APL.

Why did the thread about someone stealing APL's entire concept and code turn into a thread on APL, and why did this thread on APL turn into a 5 page advertisement for a virtual airline, a concept which has been increasingly irrelevant to many since 2015ish?

19 minutes ago, mspencer said:

Why did the thread about someone stealing APL's entire concept and code turn into a thread on APL, and why did this thread on APL turn into a 5 page advertisement for a virtual airline, a concept which has been increasingly irrelevant to many since 2015ish?

Anyone? I'm not touching it.

1 hour ago, mspencer said:

Why did the thread about someone stealing APL's entire concept and code turn into a thread on APL, and why did this thread on APL turn into a 5 page advertisement for a virtual airline, a concept which has been increasingly irrelevant to many since 2015ish?

What is even more surprising is that one of the main points of criticism regarding APL was that there is a 2% penalty for using pause. And now a VA gets promoted which does not even allow accelerated sim rate at all. 

What can be criticized regarding APL is that they kind of hide the custom flight option under the "tools" section instead of imbedding it into the "schedule" section. It seems many users of APL aren't even aware of this option and still think they are forced to only fly the generated schedule and cannot choose their own flights (which was the second point of criticism - but is just not true). 

 

Edited January 17, 20242 yr by RALF9636

1 hour ago, RALF9636 said:

What can be criticized regarding APL is that they kind of hide the custom flight option under the "tools" section instead of imbedding it into the "schedule" section. It seems many users of APL aren't even aware of this option and still think they are forced to only fly the generated schedule and cannot choose their own flights (which was the second point of criticism - but is just not true). 

Well, you have to *pay* for flying your own flights. That kind of destroys the sense of using APL. You use APL, if you (mainly) want to fly a schedule and it's part of the "core game loop" (as stated by the dev himself) that you cannot choose your own flights but have to do "work" as a real pilot, i.e. repetitive flights to and from hubs. The random continuous option was only introduced late in the development of APL because of the high level of dissatisfaction with most customers. And even then, this option will have repetitive flights, and actually if your airline has only one hub (e.g. KLM) you are doing back and forth flights anyway.
There's a big difference between APL and (those beforementioned) VAs, they are not actually competitors, but rather two very different kinds of career modes. This isn't really about who does better, but what the user wants. It's very clear that some in this thread prefer to be given a schedule with repetitive destinations and being able to use time acceleration, and others that prefer a high variety and freedom in choosing their flights. I see merit in both of them and have actually used both of them. However, I can't keep using APL for longer periods; it starts getting old very quickly, mostly because after 3 days of flying one aircraft (because the airline only uses the A320s for example) and/or flying to the same hub(s), I feel like I actually want to spend my leisure time not doing grindish routine work and actually be in another part of the world with another aircraft on another airline every day. But I appreciate what APL does and it's really kind of unique in what it does. It's just not my kind of thing for longer periods.

38 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Well, you have to *pay* for flying your own flights. That kind of destroys the sense of using APL. You use APL, if you (mainly) want to fly a schedule and it's part of the "core game loop" (as stated by the dev himself) that you cannot choose your own flights but have to do "work" as a real pilot, i.e. repetitive flights to and from hubs. The random continuous option was only introduced late in the development of APL because of the high level of dissatisfaction with most customers. And even then, this option will have repetitive flights, and actually if your airline has only one hub (e.g. KLM) you are doing back and forth flights anyway.
There's a big difference between APL and (those beforementioned) VAs, they are not actually competitors, but rather two very different kinds of career modes. This isn't really about who does better, but what the user wants. It's very clear that some in this thread prefer to be given a schedule with repetitive destinations and being able to use time acceleration, and others that prefer a high variety and freedom in choosing their flights. I see merit in both of them and have actually used both of them. However, I can't keep using APL for longer periods; it starts getting old very quickly, mostly because after 3 days of flying one aircraft (because the airline only uses the A320s for example) and/or flying to the same hub(s), I feel like I actually want to spend my leisure time not doing grindish routine work and actually be in another part of the world with another aircraft on another airline every day. But I appreciate what APL does and it's really kind of unique in what it does. It's just not my kind of thing for longer periods.

In APL you can fly any aircraft you want, you can fly a different one every day if that suits you. As far as boring, I have flown for 17 different airlines so far, all over the world. Most airports I would have never seen with a VA.

Edited January 17, 20242 yr by Bobsk8

39 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Well, you have to *pay* for flying your own flights.

That is not correct. The only downside of flying your own flights in APL is that you don't get paid for those. 

 

Quote

However, I can't keep using APL for longer periods; it starts getting old very quickly, mostly because after 3 days of flying one aircraft (because the airline only uses the A320s for example)

But you can fly any aircraft you want in APL, for example if the airline only uses A320s you can still use the B737, the ATR or whatever for those flights if you want.

 

Quote

 I feel like I actually want to spend my leisure time not doing grindish routine work and actually be in another part of the world with another aircraft on another airline every day. 

But that is exactly what makes APL so nice. You can use any aircraft you like anytime. And you have the choice of several hundreds airlines of all kinds all over the world you can change once a week. And if you don't want to wait a week you can create your own flight with any airline any time. 

 

Edited January 17, 20242 yr by RALF9636

17 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

As far as boring, I have flown for 17 different airlines so far, all over the world. Most airports I would have never seen with a VA.

Same here. 15 airlines so far. From major international carriers to tiny regional airlines in remote parts of the world I hadn't even heard of before. Destinations I would never have thought of if I had to choose them myself.

I tend to fly a mix of scheduled flights and a few additional custom flights here and there. 

What I would find most boring was to be limited to a handful of mostly renowned large airlines of a specific alliance and being forced to fly  hours and hours of eventless cruise in medium or even long haul flights in real time.

But to each his own. It's always good to have choices.

 

Edited January 17, 20242 yr by RALF9636

28 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

That is not correct. The only downside of flying your own flights in APL is that you don't get paid for those. 

 

But you can fly any aircraft you want in APL, for example if the airline only uses A320s you can still use the B737, the ATR or whatever for those flights if you want.

 

But that is exactly what makes APL so nice. You can use any aircraft you like anytime. And you have the choice of several hundreds airlines of all kinds all over the world you can change once a week. And if you don't want to wait a week you can create your own flight with any airline any time. 

 

1. But you have to purchae a flight ticket, or you will not even gain XP. Then why use APL while flying those custom routes at all?

2. That's not my kind of thing. I don't want to fly a Binter Canarias ATR from EDDF to EDDH while being on Lufthansa. That just makes no sense at all for me. But it's probably a personal thing.

I agree with you, though, that it's good to have choices.