6 hours ago, Franz007 said:

1) some will only see and focus on the negative things like small unperfections and blow them out of proportion. 

2) I can show you tons of such small unperfections in sims that are around since years.

1) interesting how you know what "only" I see and what I don't see. as soon as  bugs are reported the x-plane defence team gets personal instead of staying on topic. but what else is new.

2) as a beta tester I have reported "tons of such imperfections in sims that are around since years". I fail to see how that relates to any cloud and anti-aliasing issues in x-plane 12 though.

17 minutes ago, turbomax said:

1) interesting how you know what "only" I see and what I don't see. as soon as  bugs are reported the x-plane defence team gets personal instead of staying on topic. but what else is new.

If you post here, you are NOT "reporting bugs".

To report bugs, please use this page only:

https://www.x-plane.com/x-plane-bug-report-form/

1 hour ago, turbomax said:

1) interesting how you know what "only" I see and what I don't see. as soon as  bugs are reported the x-plane defence team gets personal instead of staying on topic. but what else is new.

2) as a beta tester I have reported "tons of such imperfections in sims that are around since years". I fail to see how that relates to any cloud and anti-aliasing issues in x-plane 12 though.

1. Because the avsim forum is not a bug-reporting forum. If you want to report them, use the official page. And it was obvisouly your only reaction after the new version in that forum: only negative things that are rathe details in my opinion compared to the imporvements made. Hence my comment about peopole seeing only the bad things in life.

2. That's great. See under point 1) So report them to Laminar. Thanks.

4 hours ago, efis007 said:

Ok but here we are not talking about "other simulators", we are talking about Xplane, so the comparisons are made between Xplane itself to try to understand how much Xplane is moving forward or backwards.
The defects of other sims don't interest me personally: I currently only use Xplane, I don't have the physical possibility of using other sims, so all my attention is focused on Xplane.
When you write "I can show you imperfections in sims that have existed for years" you wrote an overall sensible sentence.
But not towards other sims, mind you, but towards xplane itself!
This sim has serious defects that have been known for YEARS (I'll name just three: doting ATC, dark panels, poor anti-aliasing).

Exactly my point: Compared to the previous version it has improved. The antialiasing is much better now. Instead of mentionning it, some still prefer to point out to issues that have been aknowledged by the developppers but cannot be fixed that fast or that it isn't as perfect, although this has been explained to death by Laminar in a more than clear manner. So whinning about wrong expectations is not really the best thing to do in my opinion. Has Laminar stated that "dark cockpits" (that I do not experience btw.!) would be fixed in 10.1.0? And about ATC, personnally I would be more than happy if they completely took that feature away. I don't want them to spend time on things that in my opinion should be sourced out to third party devs. Exactly like Vatsim/Ivao/Pilotedge. The same with multiplayer that some wish for the future. So keep in mind that out of the thousands of issues and wishes, not everyone weights them the way you personnally do. I think the majority of users agree that the most important things are the one that affects the most the flying experience. The weather being one of them. Thats why they put the right priorities. But people will complain anyway.

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by Franz007

4 hours ago, efis007 said:

To have an XP12 in your hands that is overall worse than its previous version?

It's beyond me how you can come to such a conclusion, even less when knowing that it is a beta and will of course have some bugs that needs to be ironed out. If the AA has become worse for you then for god sake report it. For me it has massively improved. Or perhaps you consider a smaller improvement (as you where expecting) as a regression? Not sure but your comment is somehow confusing.

36 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Has Laminar stated that "dark cockpits" (that I do not experience btw.!) would be fixed in 10.1.0?

No I wasn't expecting solutions about dark cabins in 12.1.
I already knew that Laminar said to fix them by 12.3, so no problem now, I'll have to wait a lot longer.

 

27 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

It's beyond me how you can come to such a conclusion, even less when knowing that it is a beta and will of course have some bugs that needs to be ironed out. 

Please note that I have never updated my XP to v12.1 🙂
After seeing user images and reading their criticisms regarding the distorted lighting I made the decision not to download 12.1.
Users of 12.1 did not expect a worsening of the lighting, so their criticisms are justified.

34 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

If the AA has become worse for you then for god sake report it.

I never wrote that antialiasing is worse than before. 
It's the lighting (and apparently the framerate too) that has gotten worse.
Antialiasing can't be made worse.
How can it get worse?
The one in the previous versions literally sucked, so it's clear that in 12.1 it can only improve. 🙂

 

40 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Or perhaps you consider a smaller improvement (as you where expecting) as a regression? Not sure but your comment is somehow confusing.

It is not a question of quantity of improvements, but of quality of improvements.
Which at the moment seems not to have been done.
According to users, there have been some improvements in 12.1 but also at the expense of some worsening, especially relating to lighting which has always been an over-hyped component of XP12 and absolutely cannot afford to take a step back.
If it were to be confirmed that XP12.1 improved the clouds and shadows... but worsened the lighting, and the anti-aliasing still has flaws... then there hasn't been a complete step forward. 🙂

Also, listen to me, do you know why people sometimes criticize xplane?
You really don't know why?
I'll tell you: because too often it is over-publicized in an exaggerated way by you fans!!!
I'm telling you as a friend... you have to stop praising this sim in an exaggerated way, because the MORE you praise it, the MORE users will expect miracles from this sim.
Miracles that xplane 12.1 cannot perform!
Okay?
Do you understand now what the real problem is?
Xplane isn't the problem.
You fans are the problem. 😞
If you fans learn to "fly low" and stop writing exaggerated nonsense on Xplane no one will come to complain too much about the defects of this sim.
By advertising this sim with phrases like "it's light years ahead of everyone", you give a totally distorted image of this product, and unconsciously encourage users to believe in miracles and to expect the most absurd things from XP.

Do you remember the discussion about dark panels?
Do you remember what happened?
Users were angry. 
But they weren't angry at the simulator! We all knew the simulator was buggy and accepted it as "buggy"!
The problem was you fans who denied that xplane was buggy! 🤦‍♂️
Here's the truth.
If you fans would have stopped glorifying this sim and would have said that it was buggy, exactly as we had said, no one would have made a mess anymore and no one would have jumped into other people's heads by insulting and criticizing them.
You fans always make this tragic mistake.
You fans defend this simulator as if it were your mother, you defend it from criticism as if from today criticizing a simulator is synonymous with criticizing your relative.
Do you want to calm down?
Do you want to learn how to become objective?
Do you want to stop trolling fake advertisements by psychologically washing users?
Some time ago an old user said: "the worst thing about xplane are its fans".
Well, he was right. 
Let's please stop with this "biased" fandom.
I say this for both Xplane, MSFS, P3D, etc.
Let's stop treating the institution like stupid and childish people.
People know well what they do and what they see, and we must learn to LISTEN to everyone's opinions (especially the NEGATIVE ones), not bury them in the sand like children do.

I say this to all users of every simulator, with a sincere invitation. 🤝🛩️
efis007 (61 years old) 

 

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

Please note that I have never updated my XP to v12.1 🙂

Well...not even trying it and basing your opinion on the negative part of the reactions is not the best thing. And simply installing a second copy for the beta didn't touch your mind?

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

and absolutely cannot afford to take a step back.

You do understand that a beta always has issues and that they are collecting user-feedbacks to iron them out?

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

I'll tell you: because too often it is over-publicized in an exaggerated way by you fans!!!

Oh, a 61 life-old experienced man arguing by giving the whole fault to others when disagreeing. That really demonstrates great social-competence skills.

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

You fans are the problem. 😞

Of course. The others are always the problem. You are of course right. Who wouldn't have expected that?

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

The problem was you fans who denied that xplane was buggy! 🤦‍♂️

Where exactly did we deny that some things were buggy in the first beta? You seem to have missed the core-statements of our comments. Can you show us to which comment you are refering?

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

By advertising this sim with phrases like "it's light years ahead of everyone", you give a totally distorted image of this product, and unconsciously encourage users to believe in miracles and to expect the most absurd things from XP.

@GoranM this one is for you. Another one who took your ironic way too seriously 😄

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

If you fans would have stopped glorifying this sim and would have said that it was buggy, exactly as we had said, no one would have made a mess anymore and no one would have jumped into other people's heads by insulting and criticizing them.

No. The problem imo. are those who only point out at small things not working and writing their feedback in an entirely negative way, by avoiding speaking about the improvements. I have nothing agains pointing out to some issues, when it is at least made in a balanced and respectful way. This in a forum not dedicated to report bugs. I already reported some, so I don't see the problem. That's why a beta is for. The toxic and negative comments only lead to a negative chain of reactions. Law of attraction. Basis human knowledge. I am part of the Alpha-test for the FF777 and we have a forum dedicated to report bugs. It is made for that and I find it fantastic that users are reporting every bug they found. That's not the purpose of this avsim-forum.

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

Some time ago an old user said: "the worst thing about xplane are its fans".
Well, he was right. 

This is probably the most mature comment when discussing with someone you disagree with for helping to have a mature conversation. I really hope that at your age you realize how toxic your reaction is and does exactly the opposite as what you want to achieve.

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

People know well what they do and what they see, and we must learn to LISTEN to everyone's opinions (especially the NEGATIVE ones), not bury them in the sand like children do.

Absolutely agree with the first part. But why should we listen "especially" to the negative opinions and not also the positive ones? Can you explain that to me? And it is debatable what is more childish; to talk only about negative stuff or also mentionning the imporvements. Based on my life-experience i would choose the second option, any day.

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

Do you want to calm down?
Do you want to learn how to become objective?
Do you want to stop trolling fake advertisements by psychologically washing users?
Some time ago an old user said: "the worst thing about xplane are its fans".
Well, he was right. 

Having proven (see above) your psychological skills by attacking people you disagree with on such a rude way, I simply cannot take you seriously anymore. Sorry mate. Result of your rude attacks: 100% failed (but of course it's not your fault. It's of course the "others", once again 😉).

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by Franz007

Once again, we are seeing a classic perpetrator-victim reversal.
Like for example, that a woman who is r.ped is herself to blame if she dresses saucy, whereas the r.pist is "actually" the poor victim. SMH

1 hour ago, efis007 said:

efis007 (61 years old)

Did you know? Calendar age has nothing to do with wisdom and maturity 🤷‍♂️.

The default helicopters fly much more nicely for some reason, especially the R22 which is almost fun now!

 

8 hours ago, Sethos said:

So I remember trying to build a tile in Ortho4XP 1.40 with the XP12 water tech option, which caused some weird visual artifacts along shores in 12.09. Believe it was mentioned something was to change in 12.1 -- Anyone know if you can build the tiles now with that option, if that requires an Ortho4XP update or what's the deal?

Tested a few tiles built with 1.4.0 in 12.1.0 but did not see any difference in water areas and shore lines.

That said, with the exception of cloud shadows, I'm generally not seeing any difference regarding water in the first place. Maybe it's not implemented yet.

 

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by Bjoern

Interesting first stream and review from Cpt Blackbox711 with the newest beta:

- "it is a bit smoother but hasn't eliminated all microstutters" (already reported to LR by many users, seems to be related to a VRAM issue Laminar is aware of). He added "not as smooth as MSFS and I wish they would do frame-generation but i guess it's just too much to expect right now"
- "visually it has improved", the "shaders have also improved a bit"
- "some small improvements in FPS"
- "handflying was very nice. I just love how it flies. It's just more alive"
- "the thing that really caught my attention is that we had some weather-radar-returns that matched-up with the clouds. When we entered those we had some heavy rain and turbulences, even some lightnings. Not saying it's perfect but it's getting there"

So an overall positive feedback from this very experienced pilot and simmer on the very first beta that has still to be ironed out and already looks quite promising. To those who cannot stand positive feedbacks, I'd like to apologise in advance and ask you to just ignore those comments 😉

Has anyone been running into issues with VR with 12.1beta? I am getting 1FPS (where I was able to use VR prior 12.1). I have a G2 and use mid-levels graphics settings. A big thank you to the devs for this big update.

3 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

That said, with the exception of cloud shadows, I'm generally not seeing any difference regarding water in the first place. Maybe it's not implemented yet.

I also didn't see any difference for now. Not sure what exactly is supposed to happen or if those tiles have first to be made...

1 minute ago, Franz007 said:

I also didn't see any difference for now. Not sure what exactly is supposed to happen or if those tiles have first to be made...

Yes, I suspect Laminar will have to recut the default global scenery to make use of the bathymetry data.

5 hours ago, efis007 said:

People know well what they do and what they see, and we must learn to LISTEN to everyone's opinions

very true. except that buggy anti-aliasing and huge blobs of clouds that look like the black mountains instead of evening clouds are not an opinion but a fact, supported with screenshots. 😃

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by turbomax