9 minutes ago, efis007 said:

 thousands of MSFS photos online that unequivocally demonstrate that MSFS is not garbage.

Not what I said at all.

orthophoto at altitude is the same, doesnt matter if its p3d, fsx, xp11, xp12 msfs2020 or msfs2024.

There is no magic to sticking satellite photos on a globe. nothing new, looks fine in all of them and has done for 20 years.

but when you get down to the detail - i.e. below 1000 feet, msfs sat imagery/ AI is garbage- and that represents the vast majority of ms scenery.

what you are left with after that is the hand drawn stuff, e.g.

"looks decent"

but for every 3 decent images/locations like that, there are 1000+ others which are as bad as you posted and then even worse - far worse than the worst of XP11.

And we are now well into XP12 which is more than capable of better than anything Ive seen from camp microsoft, with a minimum standard of the best of MS.

While also actually having all the flight sim creds in the playground.

29 minutes ago, efis007 said:

so what's the point of me showing you 3 or 4?

The word I used was "decent"

meaning

"of an acceptable standard; satisfactory."

i.e. does not have a decades long list of things to fix and improve before its even on par with FSX or XP11, let alone what is now standard for all other platforms in 2024.

afaict, anyone saying otherwise is naive at best, outright dishonest at worst.

7 hours ago, GoranM said:

What ever happened to people just disagreeing on a subjective opinion?

If you want to express an "opinion" you can simply say that you don't like simulator X, and you prefer to fly with simulator Y (possibly also justifying why).
And this is an "opinion".

But in front of beautiful photographs like these ............

FS2020

P3D

XP12

FS9

....... how can an intelligent person assert that what he is seeing is ? 🤦‍♂️ 

Does this seem like a sensible judgment?
Does this seem like logical reasoning?
Does this seem like a realistic comparison?
Does this seem like a... opinion?
No, asserting that those photos (and therefore the simulators from which those photos derive) are garbage is no longer an "opinion", but rather a demented judgment that has nothing to do with "opinion". 

Edited July 18, 20241 yr by efis007

6 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

For most people. there opinions are their religion.

You're in the right section then. 🤭

56 minutes ago, efis007 said:

If you want to express an "opinion" you can simply say that you don't like simulator X, and you prefer to fly with simulator Y (possibly also justifying why).
And this is an "opinion".

But in front of beautiful photographs like these ............

FS2020
 

P3D
 

XP12
 

FS9
 

....... how can an intelligent person assert that what he is seeing is ? 🤦‍♂️ 
 

Does this seem like a sensible judgment?
Does this seem like logical reasoning?
Does this seem like a realistic comparison?
Does this seem like a... opinion?
No, asserting that those photos (and therefore the simulators from which those photos derive) are garbage is no longer an "opinion", but rather a demented judgment that has nothing to do with "opinion". 

It’s an opinion. Does everything have to be an argument where someone’s opinion has to be the right one?

14 hours ago, mSparks said:

no VR = garbage

Really? This is news to me and millions of others. 

Edited July 18, 20241 yr by brinx

On 7/14/2024 at 2:20 AM, Yogipriester said:

all my other addons for XP12 are free of charge and their quality is often better than those quite expensive ones for P3Dv5 or MSFS2020

We must be looking at an entirely different set of add-ons, then.

Aside from just a small handful of exceptions, (hi fi) payware utterly trounces freeware - across all sims.

On 7/15/2024 at 8:52 AM, mSparks said:

I've seen maybe 3 decent screenshots of thousands over the years taken below 1000 feet in MS, and the rest look generally worse than XP11.

Nope.

XP uniformly looks worse than MSFS, especially at low altitude.

And I don't need any add-ons to make MSFS look better.

We all know the pros and cons of both simulators.

Each has distinct advantages that keep their respective fans loyal.

But let's not pretend that ones weakness is as good as the others strength. It's silly.

On 7/15/2024 at 10:32 PM, mSparks said:

I don't think I am, above 1000 feet orthophoto is as good as identical between the two, below that I expect 

You mean above 5000...maybe?

And I need ortho/TrueEarth in order to make XP look as good as MSFS.

And, DUDE, you are an IRL pilot - helo pilot, no less!!!

There is simply no comparison in quality of scenery.

Quote

 

 

They BOTH suck at that altitude, especially out in the country like that. (And speaking of Balls of Steel...THOSE Breitling guys have 'em!).

 

Quote

afaict the vast majority of ms scenery at that altitude is hot garbage - some of it is decent, seen a couple of port areas that have been stunning at exactly the right time of day, the 20 or so airports it has seem OK,

Beyond that AFAIK everyone that side of the fence is still waiting for

https://fselite.net/content/details-on-the-msfs-world-hub-scenery-gateway-coming-in-september/

to actually make it out of alpha.

Also, afait, the whole reason people like Noel never actually post screenshots or videos is they dont actually have any decent ones, the few times after lots of convincing they have,  (new york, my local helidrome, few of the airports I frequent) they have been laughably bad.

All that is the reason msfs2024 became a thing, but since you can't even buy that yet - and it remains to be seen if it will actually be any better any time soon,

Not gonna bother with the first part - just blatantly false.

There's a screenshots gallery right here on AvSim. Truly gorgeous shots & trips shared over there. You should check it out.

The simple, and frustrating, truth is that neither simulator is great at all things. I don't bother flying X-Plane outside of Orbx TrueEarth coverage areas because it just doesn't look good - relatively speaking.

And I don't bother flying the vast majority of MSFS addons because they just don't fly well - relatively speaking.

That's what keeps me flying BOTH on a regular basis.

3 hours ago, efis007 said:

Is that AutoGen?

The PBR is AMAAAAAZING!!!! 

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

It’s an opinion. Does everything have to be an argument where someone’s opinion has to be the right one?

You're right.

In my opinion, mSparks is KoolAid drinker tragically stuck on Linux.

Reasonable people can share their opinions and debate their preferences in good faith. Some of them can even objectively allow for advantages in other products while acknowledging shortcomings in their own.

We seem to have a critical shortage of reasonable people in Flight Sim.

In fairness, I see the same level of utterly ridiculous comments in various fora and boards about all sims.

Well, except me and the 7 other guys that also still fly Prepar3D once in awhile... 😉

20 hours ago, efis007 said:

That's the most realistic depiction of the British Isles that I've ever seen in a flight simulator!

 

(Ref: https://external-preview.redd.it/Q6Eb5M0LXXns38SUM3Bbce9US6P4OsGx_M4UvQsP40U.jpg?auto=webp&s=b04b3252ad16a35ebb20089db19430e1a4fb8750 or https://img.ifunny.co/images/d3bfd07deaa3fb436344a7555503816062d698c59985b788cd68865c9428d6a2_1.webp )

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

It’s an opinion. Does everything have to be an argument where someone’s opinion has to be the right one?

This is about photographs, not "opinions".
We have shown photographs.
Photography is factual, not an opinion.

Anyone in the world seeing this photo will say that it depicts flowers, not garbage.

Anyone in the world seeing this photo will say that it depicts a plane flying over a landscape of trees and villages.
And it doesn't matter if that plane and that scenery are from FS2020 or XP12 or Aerofly FS4.
Regardless of where it came from, that photo is beautiful, and it does not depict garbage!

Anyone in the world who claims that these photographs depict garbage is no longer expressing an "opinion" formulated on concepts and logical reasoning, but is expressing total nonsense based on absolutely nothing, so as such his "opinion" is zero. 
I am not the one who decides whether an opinion is right or wrong.
The photos themselves prove it!
Just look at those photos with unprejudiced eyes and describe what they depict. 

If from today the concept that anyone can write "garbage" for every photo (of simulators) that circulates on the net, anarchy will reign, everyone will be able to write undisturbed that XP12 is garbage , P3D is garbage, FSx is garbage.
If you and your friends like this concept of "opinion".... perfect... agreed... let's all adapt.
The important thing is not to complain if someone in the future dares to define the XP12 photos as "garbage"!
It's an opinion, right?

I personally really like freedom of opinion.
But there is a limit between expressing opinions and expressing nonsense.

Edited July 18, 20241 yr by efis007

4 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Is that AutoGen?

The PBR is AMAAAAAZING!!!!

😄

I think it is totally useless to try to claim MSFS 2020 scenery in general is bad. Its also useless to say that some of the lighting and even some details for instance of how airports, their lighting systems and even some of their buildings look even more realistic on XP , while out of those airport areas default X-Plane 12 Scenery looks rather basic...

Just as it is useless to try to convince someone who knows what is involved that the flight dynamics of XP and MSFS are equal in terms of details of the modeling and overall feel... This is then simply impossible for instance  if helicopters are used for comparison..., etc...

Overall functionality, for instance when looking for a simulated airline flight from A to B, with ATC and AI Traffic, at the moment is also by far superior in MSFS... But there are good prospects for future produts comming for XP...

Weather has it's good and bad aspects on both sims, but overall I prefer the end result on XP because of the way weather impacts on a more realistic way fljgbt operations...

Use each for it's best and you'll BE more than fine... And use also p3d for instance of Airbus simulation is what you're after because no Airbus in MSFS or XP does what the FSLabs airbuses do on that platform ...

Edited July 18, 20241 yr by jcomm

 

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

Anyone in the world seeing this photo will say that it depicts flowers, not garbage.

not if you are claiming it is a beautiful picture of a swan.

https://www.flightsim.com/forums/topic/51181-no-papi-lights/

 

lacking sim basics is what makes it garbage.

I mean sure, its a fairly decent screenshot of supermans view of behind a plane landing at a derelict airport.

if thats all that matters to you perhaps you should try disney planes, every frame of that is as decent as your flower shot.

shrug.