41 minutes ago, aniiran said:

When they were both newer I tested them both extensively.  In my unpopular opinion SI added a bunch features that are of zero interest to me, but BATC development has stalled.

I did an Ifly737 MAX 8 flight from KSLC to KSFO with BeyondATC and it was good for the most part.  It struggles with vectors still, it's gotten better, but if you follow direction you'll end up too high and too fast nearly every time.  When you cross over SFO on the BDEGA4 you cross at 11000 but once you cross you get immediate vectors towards final.  Last night I got turn left heading 100 decent and maintain 5,000, then a minute later "turn left heading 310 descend and maintain 3,100 report when established on the Localizer.  Uh.. yeah I'm at 9000 feet so I'll never be on the localizer if it turn to 310.  So I just extended out the best I could and turned in once i knew I was below the glideslope.  They are getting closer.  

But SayIntentions has the opposite problem.  I feel like SI only works because it mostly just parrots back what you request without any challenge. SI has never told me no on anything. Vectors to final don't work any better than BATC.

Honestly development pace has been lackluster for both especially considering how much they cost, especially SayIntentions.

The couple of videos I have seen with  SI, it looks like the pilot is telling the program what he or she would like to do, and SI says "OK, then do it".  That isn't any kind of ATC that I have ever experienced. LIke flying with my Echo, and talking to "Alexa. "

42 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

The couple of videos I have seen with  SI, it looks like the pilot is telling the program what he or she would like to do, and SI says "OK, then do it".  That isn't any kind of ATC that I have ever experienced. LIke flying with my Echo, and talking to "Alexa. "

That depends on the type of flight and where one is throughout the process, like requesting clearance or push and start, the pilot is telling ATC what they want. Airline flights pretty much follow their filed route, minus any unforeseen issues like weather, mechanical, passengers and what not. So I wouldn't expect to be told no during my rides, but that's my type of flying. I will agree that I don't believe I've every been told "no or unable" by Say Intentions.

Edited October 20, 20241 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

5 hours ago, Speedbird 217 said:

Let me summarise this. I have stated my opinion about the marketing practices of SI in this thread and clearly labelled it as my opinion based on my observations. Furthermore, I have referred to a dev of SI praising the product on this very forum to people asking for opinions on ATC software without identifying himself as a dev of the product he was praising (fact, happy to provide the link to the thread here on avsim where this happened) and SI running a competition for customers to gain benefits for praising the product across the internet (fact, confirmed by multiple people in this very thread).

Nowhere do I talk about the functionality of SI or make any other claims. Various other people have chimed in and agreed with my personal point of view that SI is extremely aggressive and not very transparent in their marketing which can create a conflict of interest and lack of trust and that some users of SI (certainly not all) seem to have a weird borderline obsession with trying to convert everyone to SI.

I even said I’m happy you and others are enjoying SI but it’s not for me and to each their own.

And now you come out and double down on saying my opinion is false and I’m spreading misinformation? I’d love for you to share what misinformation I’m spreading - facts please, not more of “I don’t agree with your point of view so it’s false”. You also keep urging me to try SI when I have already said I don’t want to and I’m happy with what I’m using and happy you’re enjoying your SI. The whole “cost of a meal” argument is also extremely flawed, it’s not about the money for me but whenever I read people using this as an argument I cringe.

Don’t you see the irony in your response and that you’re beautifully illustrating my point that some SI users come across as trying to convert everyone to their choice of ATC and disregard any opposing views and opinions, going so far as to accuse me of spreading misinformation when I did no such thing?

So here is what you said that was false “barrage of SI praising threads from “customers” on MSFS Facebook groups and finally one of them admitting there’s some sort of competition going on where they can win MSFS24 if they spam the internet with positive reviews of how amazing SI is.”

 

I’d like to see where someone admits that they win MS2024 if they spam the internet with positive reviews of SI if you have that in writing.  This is what I called you out on spreading false information because again Brian specifically asked people not to spam but just help get the word out.  You would not know this because you are not a customer and likely didn’t watch his video stream either.  I honestly don’t care what you do.  I was just correcting what you said which was false.  That can be your opinion but it’s not based on fact.

2 hours ago, aniiran said:

but BATC development has stalled.

Eh? No it hasn't

46 minutes ago, thetford569 said:

Brian specifically asked people not to spam but just help get the word out

But, several people posting just to win will in effect spam a forum. It's not a person spamming, but a collective. Brian may say "don't spam" but to win, you need to post.

That said, skimming through the Discord channel yields a small amount of folks posting entries. The downstream impact to that though, is -- at least here, I don't really follow the Reddits, etc. -- is a positive poster for SI can now be unfairly tarnished with the schill brush. I do not like this marketing tactic at all. Tying it to a reward means people are going to post to win. 

Also, I do not like Brian backed off a criticism of BATC putting traffic behind a supporter's pack, and then did that himself. It's one thing to criticize a feature and implement it (see, CoPilot), but the Partner's pack with traffic as bullet item #1 bothers me.

When Brian mentioned that what became Entourage was "even bigger than the price drop, and will send shockwaves through the industry", what we got was Entourage, which got one post on FSElite, and nothing on Thresholdx for news.

My opinion of SI has taken a hit over the last month or so. I do enjoy the product. I think it does the best job of vectoring out of FSHUD/BATC/SI. I like the cabin crews and am looking forward to the cabin crisis. And for the record, no, I am not posting this to win.

Brian mentioned the biggest hurdle they have is folks not knowing about the product. I think the bigger hurdle is also making a compelling argument the product is worth the subscription fee. A whole lot of people hate sub fees. We've even seen it here with Navigraph.

I don't know what they've done for outreach to streamers. One friend had an involvement with them a while back, but hasn't done anything with it really. Folks like Father Time, who paid with his own money, or streamers/content creators who don't stream on Vatsim are folks I think are worth a comped sub.

Also, I found out today it will happily give your clearance from an airport to another, even if you aren't at the origin airport. I originally wanted to fly from KSAN to KPVU, but changed my mind and wanted to fly the reverse route. In KPVU, it cleared me off the KSAN runway and SIDs. Apparently, it's not checking you are actually at the airport you are requeasting clearance from.

Edited October 20, 20241 yr by BrammyH
Typos. Lots of Typos.

These threads should be titled "ATC Wars" Where each try to convince theirs's is the best thing since sliced bread, but in reality neither works as it should.. 

Yes, after reading this, I will stick to in-game ATC or Vatsim. These products and companies don't seem "stable" - who knows if they will  be around next year. Maybe in a year or two it may be worth using, but not for now. 

54 minutes ago, thetford569 said:

So here is what you said that was false “barrage of SI praising threads from “customers” on MSFS Facebook groups and finally one of them admitting there’s some sort of competition going on where they can win MSFS24 if they spam the internet with positive reviews of how amazing SI is.”

 

I’d like to see where someone admits that they win MS2024 if they spam the internet with positive reviews of SI if you have that in writing.  This is what I called you out on spreading false information because again Brian specifically asked people not to spam but just help get the word out.  You would not know this because you are not a customer and likely didn’t watch his video stream either.  I honestly don’t care what you do.  I was just correcting what you said which was false.  That can be your opinion but it’s not based on fact.

Erm, there is literally an entire section of the SI Discord where people are incentivised to post positive stuff about SI to anything remotely sim related to enter a raffle to win prizes. Scrolling through it, there are endless posts of people going "I've posted to this group and that forum" with screenshot or video proof. I hope these 3 are enjoying their MSFS24 copies and SI subscriptions won for spamming the internet with positive reviews.

Anything else you want to say or accuse me of?

17 minutes ago, Speedbird 217 said:

Erm, there is literally an entire section of the SI Discord where people are incentivised to post positive stuff about SI to anything remotely sim related to enter a raffle to win prizes. Scrolling through it, there are endless posts of people going "I've posted to this group and that forum" with screenshot or video proof. I hope these 3 are enjoying their MSFS24 copies and SI subscriptions won for spamming the internet with positive reviews.

Anything else you want to say or accuse me of?

That is like all the phony positive reviews on junky Amazon products,  that the reviewer gets paid for. 

2 hours ago, Speedbird 217 said:

Erm, there is literally an entire section of the SI Discord where people are incentivised to post positive stuff about SI to anything remotely sim related to enter a raffle to win prizes. Scrolling through it, there are endless posts of people going "I've posted to this group and that forum" with screenshot or video proof. I hope these 3 are enjoying their MSFS24 copies and SI subscriptions won for spamming the internet with positive reviews.

Anything else you want to say or accuse me of?

Nope I said all I needed to say the first time.  Congrats on going to the discord.  I’m there too but you won’t see me posting in those channels cause I don’t care about winning a prize.  But I will say what the truth actually is when I come across it being reported the wrong way.  And by no means am I saying you did it intentionally.  You just were not well informed and gave your opinion.  I’m done with this though.  I barely have time to even fly which is the one bad thing about SI is that I wish I was able to use it everyday.  Yet I still pay the subscription cause it’s that much better than the default ATC and I know Asobo isn’t doing a thing about that for at least another year.

3 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

Eh? No it hasn't

To me it has, and it's probably mostly because of FS2024.  They are still where they were back at FS Expo 24 in June when I saw the working demo of the traffic. Still no VFR. Still issues with vectoring and choosing correct runways since version 1.0.  So to me nothing has progressed since June.

14 minutes ago, thetford569 said:

Nope I said all I needed to say the first time.  Congrats on going to the discord.  I’m there too but you won’t see me posting in those channels cause I don’t care about winning a prize.  But I will say what the truth actually is when I come across it being reported the wrong way.  And by no means am I saying you did it intentionally.  You just were not well informed and gave your opinion.  I’m done with this though.  I barely have time to even fly which is the one bad thing about SI is that I wish I was able to use it everyday.  Yet I still pay the subscription cause it’s that much better than the default ATC and I know Asobo isn’t doing a thing about that for at least another year.

So you genuinely continue to claim that I was not truthful? I have literally posted evidence to back up my statement. At least have the decency to admit that you are wrong - unbelievable.

👌

1 hour ago, Speedbird 217 said:

So you genuinely continue to claim that I was not truthful? I have literally posted evidence to back up my statement. At least have the decency to admit that you are wrong - unbelievable.

I love the non-apology he gave when proven he was wrong. 

8 hours ago, Simselli said:

These threads should be titled "ATC Wars" Where each try to convince theirs's is the best thing since sliced bread, but in reality neither works as it should.. 

This thread is mostly about the marketing practices by now, so not your usual Avsim thread. You can pretty much discuss this without even mentioning any other ATC tool.