2 hours ago, Luke said:

I think you're being far too harsh on the Aces team, and forgetting the reality of the situation.

[...]

Couldn't agree more (with the whole post).

Edited November 17, 20241 yr by d.tsakiris

I do not use MSFS (yet) - I have it with the PMDG 737, and mainly have flown it whilst beta testing Activesky for MSFS.

As I have a decent quantity of addons for destinations/areas I frequent in P3D, the visual quality is good for me.  I exclusively fly the FSL A320 + PMDG aircraft (need to learn the Majestic Q400).  I still believe the FSL A320 is the best A320 available for any sim at the moment, and that is what I fly most.  Anyway, long story short is, P3D v5 suits my needs perfectly at the moment, and has features such as weather radar and (arguably) better flight dynamics/atmosphere modelling for larger jets (Blackbox711, a real pilot streamer, often makes reference to the twitchiness of pitch, lack of inertia, and other problems in the MSFS flight model) that MSFS does not have.

My PC runs P3D v5 better than MSFS in 4K.  I plan to upgrade PC next year some time, at which point I will likely switch/at least start using MSFS more.  Not necessarily because I am dissatisfied with P3D, but because new aircraft I am interested in (A380) are being produced for it and P3D add-on development is very little compared to MSFS.  I still buy the odd P3D addon, and there are good quality sceneries still released for it (e.g. Imaginesim WSSS updates, which is good of them).

For you, unless you are desperate and cannot wait for the 747, I would not advise starting down the path of P3D unless you are prepared to spend a good amount of money for some add-ons that are semi-essential to making P3D good (e.g. ORBX Landclass areas, Activesky for weather, add-on airports).  The PMDG 747 for P3D is very good - their best aircraft in P3D in my opinion.  Only realy downside is that LNAV tracking can sometimes not be the best, as is the case with all PMDG planes in P3D.  Otherwise a very solid and stable release which is great for long-hauls.  Don't expect realsitc behavior in many failure modes though - e.g. engine out handling.  The 777 is also good, but a bit more dated visuals-wise.  However, as another poster referenced, they really did stuff up pitch stability with the release of the 200ER and subsequent updates to the 200LR/F/300ER.  It is very twitchy and has some bizarre behaviours on approach.  It is, however, very good on FPS.

 

I am not a massive fan of MSFS as the developers seem less interested in fixing fundamental flight dynamics issues versus adding more "gameish" features, but it is really the only platform outside of Xplane that will see ongoing development.  Even if Lockheed update P3D in the future (they already have in v6, and very few add-on aircraft are officially supported in it), I doubt it will see a return to a good number of add-ons being produced for it.

This is coming from someone who is currently very happy with what I have in P3D - but I doubt I'd start again down that path now given the current state of the flight sim market.

 

Edited November 17, 20241 yr by VHOJT

35 minutes ago, VHOJT said:

I do not use MSFS (yet) - I have it with the PMDG 737, and mainly have flown it whilst beta testing Activesky for MSFS.

As I have a decent quantity of addons for destinations/areas I frequent in P3D, the visual quality is good for me.  I exclusively fly the FSL A320 + PMDG aircraft (need to learn the Majestic Q400).  I still believe the FSL A320 is the best A320 available for any sim at the moment, and that is what I fly most.  Anyway, long story short is, P3D v5 suits my needs perfectly at the moment, and has features such as weather radar and (arguably) better flight dynamics/atmosphere modelling for larger jets (Blackbox711, a real pilot streamer, often makes reference to the twitchiness of pitch, lack of inertia, and other problems in the MSFS flight model) that MSFS does not have.

My PC runs P3D v5 better than MSFS in 4K.  I plan to upgrade PC next year some time, at which point I will likely switch/at least start using MSFS more.  Not necessarily because I am dissatisfied with P3D, but because new aircraft I am interested in (A380) are being produced for it and P3D add-on development is very little compared to MSFS.  I still buy the odd P3D addon, and there are good quality sceneries still released for it (e.g. Imaginesim WSSS updates, which is good of them).

For you, unless you are desperate and cannot wait for the 747, I would not advise starting down the path of P3D unless you are prepared to spend a good amount of money for some add-ons that are semi-essential to making P3D good (e.g. ORBX Landclass areas, Activesky for weather, add-on airports).  The PMDG 747 for P3D is very good - their best aircraft in P3D in my opinion.  Only realy downside is that LNAV tracking can sometimes not be the best, as is the case with all PMDG planes in P3D.  Otherwise a very solid and stable release which is great for long-hauls.  Don't expect realsitc behavior in many failure modes though - e.g. engine out handling.  The 777 is also good, but a bit more dated visuals-wise.  However, as another poster referenced, they really did stuff up pitch stability with the release of the 200ER and subsequent updates to the 200LR/F/300ER.  It is very twitchy and has some bizarre behaviours on approach.  It is, however, very good on FPS.

 

I am not a massive fan of MSFS as the developers seem less interested in fixing fundamental flight dynamics issues versus adding more "gameish" features, but it is really the only platform outside of Xplane that will see ongoing development.  Even if Lockheed update P3D in the future (they already have in v6, and very few add-on aircraft are officially supported in it), I doubt it will see a return to a good number of add-ons being produced for it.

This is coming from someone who is currently very happy with what I have in P3D - but I doubt I'd start again down that path now given the current state of the flight sim market.

 

Couldnt Agree more well said.

On 11/16/2024 at 7:27 PM, V_Pilot said:

I own MSFS2020 and XP11/12 and have a ton of addons for both.

So money don't seem to be the main problem.

So no reasons not to  add P3D to the mix.

On 11/16/2024 at 5:53 PM, Ray Proudfoot said:

why are you here talking about a “dead” sim

RSR said yesterday (or day before) he had no interest in developing their planes for 'dead sims' in the future (p3d, msfs 2020). 

Very disappointing, and insulting. Pretty much what we're bombarded with these days from all directions these days though. 

To the OP I did just what you propose a couple months back, paid for p3dv5 pro and pmdg 777 and 747 (I already own both in fsx) just so I could keep enjoying the peak in flight simulation. 

Very happy with my (desperate) decision. MSFS LOOKS real but always FEELS 'off', I fly mostly Ifr in p3d which is uncannyily immersive for me. 

1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

RSR said yesterday (or day before) he had no interest in developing their planes for 'dead sims' in the future (p3d, msfs 2020). 

Very disappointing, and insulting. Pretty much what we're bombarded with these days from all directions these days though. 

To the OP I did just what you propose a couple months back, paid for p3dv5 pro and pmdg 777 and 747 (I already own both in fsx) just so I could keep enjoying the peak in flight simulation. 

Very happy with my (desperate) decision. MSFS LOOKS real but always FEELS 'off', I fly mostly Ifr in p3d which is uncannyily immersive for me. 

We only focus on the custumer side but never on the developper side and understand their logic.

Most P3D switched to msfs. The P3D population today is absymal. that's a fact.

Starting tomorrow, people will start to migrate from msfs to mfs2024 and once the bugs will be ironed and more products updated to msfs2024, it's a no brainer that the population remaining on the original msfs will be limited.

As a developper, it is not sustainable to develop their products on P3D, msfs and msfs2024 (not counting XP and it's different variations too). Products include more and more features and need more and more time to be developped so I can understand that developpers cannot split their forces on multiple simulators, even more when the less played sims cannot sustain enough sales to be viable economically.

In one hand, yes it is sad but many developpers like PMDG or Inibuilds already stated that msfs won't be the answer in a few months as they will concentrate on msfs2024. So don't even talk to them about P3D.

Yesterday someone told me that msfs will never die as a majority of users cannot invest $100 more on msfs2024. Sorry but time will tell he is so wrong.

Edited November 18, 20241 yr by sdirand

2 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

keep enjoying the peak in flight simulation

Thanks everyone for your opinions.

I have decided to go for it. I also consider these versions of PMDG products are their best ever, so I would like to "keep enjoying the peak in flight simulation" which they are.

56 minutes ago, V_Pilot said:

Thanks everyone for your opinions.

I have decided to go for it. I also consider these versions of PMDG products are their best ever, so I would like to "keep enjoying the peak in flight simulation" which they are.

Just so you are aware - PMDG no longer sells any products for P3D nor they have any plans of updating their P3D products. From what I understand they have simply abandoned P3D few years ago.

At this stage someone new to flight sim wanted to start from beginning I would point them to MSFS 2024/2020 (not even 2020 - PMDG have said there are no more new planes developed for MSFS 2020 after 777F) so practically MSFS 2024 only. 

The only reason why I still fly P3D is I have spent huge amount of money on various addons over years & it would make no sense to remove it. 

Edited November 18, 20241 yr by CAP1234

Fslabs will continue to support and sell products for P3D….Nothing compares to the quality of Fslabs, so if I can update my p3D Fslabs products I won’t move to MSFS.

 

enjoy MSFS with the Cessna and visuals. I don’t care Pmdg or many others.  

1 hour ago, juaness said:

Fslabs will continue to support and sell products for P3D….Nothing compares to the quality of Fslabs, so if I can update my p3D Fslabs products I won’t move to MSFS.

 

enjoy MSFS with the Cessna and visuals. I don’t care Pmdg or many others.  

It is another topic but didn't Fslabs halt all development for P3D some time back? I don't think they will go back to P3D any time soon, their Fslabs airbuses need updating but I don't see that happening anytime soon. 

1 hour ago, CAP1234 said:

It is another topic but didn't Fslabs halt all development for P3D some time back? I don't think they will go back to P3D any time soon, their Fslabs airbuses need updating but I don't see that happening anytime soon. 

They released a 64-bit Concorde for v5 in August 2023 followed by a few updates. The last in November. Twelve months on still waiting for many bugs to be fixed. They've switched development to MSFS Concorde but no formal announcement or release date.

In the meantime us v5 users wait patiently.

6 hours ago, sdirand said:

Yesterday someone told me that msfs will never die as a majority of users cannot invest $100 more on msfs2024. Sorry but time will tell he is so wrong.

All this talk about sims 'dying' and 'dead sims' is nonsense. Any offline sim once purchased and installed will probably 'live' longer than their owner (unless Microsoft buggz up windows even more). 

It's THAT language I object to not the devs preferring to make money elsewhere. 

But.. If people REALLY want to use this living /dead analogy then I have a question. What will happen to your online only sim when the servers are finally retired (and they WILL BE)?

Adios life support. 

FSX, P3d, and MSFS are not losing popularity, their appeal is becoming more 'selective'.. 😉😎. 

 

I think in the case of developers such as RR of PMDG some use the dead sim label as a passive aggressive insult to legacy customers who opt to stay on their older platform. Perhaps an attempt to sim shame them into following the pied piper from platform to platform buying their same aircraft over again. A psychological sales ploy like saying you’re dead to me. Who wants to hear that from the guru of sim domain.  
After years of following and buying from PMDG I take it as a personal snub and will not spend another dime with that company. I did buy the DC6 for MSFS out of curiosity and have the NG 737-700 because it was practically free as the deal when the NGXu came out but if in the unlikely event I migrate completely to a newer platform I ll not consider them again. 
I still use the legacy birds from PMDG because they are quite good but no longer follow like a fish on a hook.
 

On 11/16/2024 at 7:56 AM, V_Pilot said:

Is there any history of LM breaking addons after updating P3D? I am afraid with no support for their P3D addons from PMDG, if this happens again, I''ll be screwed, like many others.

Yes, it has happened everyajor update, and many minor ones.

Just to add my 2cts as a multi-sim "Fanatic".

I haven't seen any credible information to make me believe the PMDG products in P3D are of higher fidelity than same in MSFS.

If you just have to have a Study Level 747(s), then yes, P3D is your only option.

If it was me, I'd go for v5 Academic edition with the 744 and STOP there for a few months until you really get a feel for how things meet your desires/expectations.

P3D is a fine sim, and certainly PMDG made fine add-ons there.

But it's a LOT of work to get it running and looking good, and it takes a lot of cash, too.

When I look at that reality, despite having a LOT of $$$ spent on P3D, I'm almost positive I won't be spending any more there now that there are so many high quality add-ons available in MSFS (and XP, too).