28 minutes ago, evaamo said:

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic in your reply, but in any case all that was needed was to check on the PFD that HOLD mode was on and to understand from it that the servos weren’t going to “wake up” the throttles… much less provide any stall protection that the other A/T modes have. No need to keep eyes glued to the PFD. All part of the regular quick scan done in every approach by crews workdwide.

Investigations concluded human error in many levels: lack of understanding the system, lack of proper CRM, failure of training in such scenarios. 

 

 

Hey, sorry if it came across like that. I definitely did not mean any sarcasm towards you. I agree with what you've written. I was just shooting the breeze. Like whether it's a rusty old Cessna from the 1960's, a 777, 787, whatever, it doesn't matter. In any case just flying the darned plane, among all the other distractions, is something which sometimes tends to get neglected.

Well, I just did my first flight in the 777F (never purchased the 77W) and I got to say, I like it. It will for sure be in my flying rotation.  

20 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I don't argue or try to prove anything with Trolls. 

That isn't remotely trolling.

6 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

That isn't remotely trolling.

That's your opinion.

3 hours ago, Cognita said:

For me, personally, this is the point. I have paid now 3 times for the NG -- FSX, P3D and the NGXu, better known as the MSFS2020 version as I absolutely would not have purchased it except for the promise of the free update to 2020. Yes, each time they have made some small, gradual improvements and of course they needed to do compatibility work. But, there have been no discounts. That is completely their prerogative.

But, to my point, I will give a lot more thought now to whether I will purchase a product from PMDG, because I do not want to buy into a cycle of constant paying. If they need to charge for each upgrade to every version of a platform then their products are just not that appealing to me. As others have said, there are other great aircraft out there now that fulfil the same role and I get just as much enjoyment from flying the FENIX -- maybe more so because I find it has more character, just like like the 300F versus the dull 777F -- and so I can do without their products. All this to say, I think twice and then three times before purchasing a PMDG aircraft; if FENIX or Black Square released a new product tomorrow, it would be an immediate purchase with very little thought.

Practically, am I interested in paying again for the 737NG series; absolutely not. I first bought that aircraft in August 2011 when it came out and I have enjoyed flying it for 13 years; if I never fly it again that is okay; I am more interested in the MAX now because I fly real world routes and the thing is the NGs are coming to end of service life.

This is a problem of perspective.

To you, it's the same old addon across all those simulator versions.

The reality is that each version requires significant yet utterly invisible work to be made compatible with the new sim in which it flies.

And we know that's especially true with the "same old addon ported over" to MSFS. In this case it was pretty much starting over. The MSFS 737 was as much work to produce as a 757/767 would've been.

Believe me, if Fenix had been around as long as PMDG, their pricing strategy would've been the same. As a matter of fact, Fenix is following exactly the same path as PMDG used to. E.g., if they sold an A318 for $36 like the 736, I'd buy it immediately.

Similar thing with Just Flight. I got exactly ZERO discount for my 146 even tho I have it in X-Plane AND P3D. (And yes, it is very much "just the same old thing ported over"... 🤣).

So this isn't a case of PMDG being greedy, it's really just a case of people getting bored with flying the same plane, regardless of how good the addon might be.

30 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And we know that's especially true with the "same old addon ported over" to MSFS. In this case it was pretty much starting over.

word not allowed.

If it was the case that each product was started over every time, why did the 737 have the exact same issues from the FSX era?

8 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

word not allowed.

If it was the case that each product was started over every time, why did the 737 have the exact same issues from the FSX era?

Because ALL of the devs from the legacy sims have told us it's essentially starting over, that's why.

And why do you think it took almost exactly the same amount of time for PMDG, JustFlight, Leonardo AND even Fenix to come to market? They all launched within 2-3 weeks of each other...

An extremely simple answer to your question is that the same people converted the code. And if there's logic/procedural errors in the original code, and they're not addressed, then they will carry over to the converted code. E.g., a bad formula or calculation from old code will still be bad in the new sim. Math is universal, after all 😉

Edited December 8, 20241 yr by UrgentSiesta

55 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

So this isn't a case of PMDG being greedy, it's really just a case of people getting bored with flying the same plane, regardless of how good the addon might be.

Good points.

I did not mean to imply at all that PMDG is greedy; I have no idea the work involved, what their costs actually are, or what return on investment they need to justify the effort. Maybe given how they have developed their addons and the level of support they provide -- this from my experience is pretty good -- they need to charge more and more frequently.  Your point was clarifying, I just don't have enough interest in the 737 to purchase it again, yea, no matter how good it is. 

1 hour ago, Cognita said:

Good points.

I did not mean to imply at all that PMDG is greedy; I have no idea the work involved, what their costs actually are, or what return on investment they need to justify the effort. Maybe given how they have developed their addons and the level of support they provide -- this from my experience is pretty good -- they need to charge more and more frequently.  Your point was clarifying, I just don't have enough interest in the 737 to purchase it again, yea, no matter how good it is. 

Entirely understandable. I have a good few more years to catch up with you and might feel the same way when I do!

On 12/8/2024 at 8:33 AM, Bobsk8 said:

I don't argue or try to prove anything with Trolls. 

I'm hardly trolling I was only responding to a comment you made about one of my comments . I could argue that you where Trolling me

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by jason74

Sixteen pages of threads...and plenty of nay-sayers.

Nothing invokes more emotion here on Avsim than a thread involving either PMDG or FSLabs.

I bought the 777F on day one...not my usual MO...I usually wait for the first update...but, I was anxiously awaiting this aircraft...personal preference for freighter aircraft. Also purchased the 77W...which, admittedly, I enjoy, but, fly less frequently.

The 777F flies beautifully...those here insisting (without purchase) that this aircraft is a P3D port are simply incorrect in their assessment.

Also just completed a fictional repaint of a Cargojet livery for this aircraft...having "painted" in both P3D and now MSFS2020, I can say that the external model is not a port over from P3D...the supplied paintkit has been totally remade to reflect the model changes.

PMDG have upped their game at the back end of the aircraft as well...the interior cargo hold is a big improvement over past releases.

Yes, I agree that the soundset may not be spectacular...but, I can view actual B777 aircraft all day long at my local airport, and they too, are on the quiet side...external sounds are comparable to what I can hear on these real world departures. Do I have first hand experience on the flightdeck (regarding sounds)...no. The experience on this add-on more than meets the bill.

I know several people have mixed feelings on the iniBuilds A300...I thoroughly enjoy that aircraft in MSFS. Flies great and is entertaining/challenging. For me; however, it's about 1,000 nm short on range would be the only downside for the iniBuilds freighter.

With this recent PMDG release, it's good to finally have a true long haul freighter in MSFS.

Regarding the $55 spent...flightsim is my hobby...not a business...I don't view this cost like a "business decision"...it was a hobby passion expense...let's face it...this whole hobby is based upon disposable income.

Personally, I know I will get the "value" from this aircraft purchase as it fits my desire for a quality, long haul freight hauler.

PMDG has done well on this addition.

On 12/9/2024 at 5:53 AM, B777ER said:

Well, I just did my first flight in the 777F (never purchased the 77W) and I got to say, I like it. It will for sure be in my flying rotation.  

yep  done  my first flight  and  never  had  to deploy  the  speed  brake at all, kept all the  alt  and  speed  restraints pretty  much  as  the fmc dictated

New update from PMDG yesterday - haven't seen this posted here yet. Only a small wall of words this time. Good news is that the Cargo Door warning on the 77W has been fixed. Bad news that they still don't seem to be any closer to getting their aircraft across to MSFS24...

[12DEC24] Updates for PMDG 777 for MSFS and other tidbits for your weekend - PMDG Simulations

Quote

PMDG 777 for MSFS 2020 Updates:
We have published micro updates for both the PMDG 777-300ER and PMDG 777F that are designed to clean up a few items that needed attention in the days after 777F release. This involves some code changes that caused issues in the 777-300ER, as well as numerous model cleanups, logic fixes and other adjustments across both the 777F and 777-300ER airplanes.

For 777-300ER pilots, this update will eliminate the ghost cargo door advisory and associated TOCWS trigger... Sorry about that one- it was my fault.

PMDG 777 for MSFS v.2.00.0060 Change Log:
=================================
15013: [Systems - Wheels & Brakes] Autobrakes rotates from RTO to OFF on egnine start (rsrandazzo)
15033: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Voice Recorder Switch Missing (vscimone)
15029: [Systems - Ice & Rain Protection] Icing animation not appearing on 777F (jbrown)
14998: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] 777F L PACK writing is distorted (vscimone)
15018: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Gap between lower forward panels and padding (vscimone)
15027: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Black Screw below chronometer is placed too far to the outboard side of the panel (vscimone)
15016: [Virtual Cockpit - Functionality/Click-Spots] Voice recorder switch Auto/ON missing from 77F (vscimone)
15022: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] 77F Different shades on MCP/EFIS Panels (vscimone)
15030: [Systems - Lighting - VC/2D] Cockpit light sources do not not illuminate when turned on (vscimone)
15015: [Virtual Cockpit - Functionality/Click-Spots] Cockpit Flood light bulbs do not not illuminate when turned on (vscimone)
15032: [External Model - Geometry] Tailcam view misplaced on 777F (jbrown)
15010: [External Model - Geometry] Cargo door panel on fwd area always bright even at night (jbrown)
15026: [External Model - Geometry] Cargo door support frame parts disappearing during door operation. (jbrown)
15008: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Small gaps in the cockpit (vscimone)
15019: [External Model - Geometry] Cargo door trim gap not flush (jbrown)
15021: [External Model - Geometry] Cargo deck fuselage windows clipping cabin trim (jbrown)
15017: [External Model - Liveries] Pink texture on door L1/L2 girt clips (jbrown)
15012: [General - Unsure] Rain drops visible on glass of both cars inside 777F cargo hold. (jbrown)
14997: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Mis-located cargo lock in random location on cargo main deck floor (jbrown)
15023: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] 777F Hole in cargo floor (jbrown)

You can can get both updates via the PMDG Operations Center on the product updates page.

PMDG 777 for MSFS 2024- One Step Forward, Four Steps Back:
We have some good news on the 2024 platform this week, followed immediately by yet another disappointment.

With the platform updated pushed by Microsoft on 10DEC24, we have the ability to run code and debugging in MSFS 2024 using the same tools we used in MSFS 2020. While this is a cause for excitement among the PMDG development team, we have quickly determined that the memory allocation error we reported to Asobo some months back in MSFS 2020 continues to exist in MSFS 2024 and brings development effort to a full stop because C++ wasm projects relying upon advanced memory allocation techniques used by modern C++ compilers will almost immediately cause the code execution to fail.

This means we are still unable to run/build/test code within the new platform and we continue to sit on our hands waiting for platform fixes.

In the developer community, a few other developers have already brought this to Asobo's attention and we have added our voice to the chorus in hopes that it will receive attention finally. For those following along, you will recall that when the last MSFS 2020 SDK was released, it decimated our forward progress on the 777F and took us two months of research and development of our own tools to identify the problem and localize it to a specific malloc() function call in the SDK that, while documented by Asobo apparently doesn't work.

We appreciate your patience as we wait for a platform fix that will allow us to get to work bringing you your favorite PMDG products to MSFS 2024. Unfortunately, we are stuck doing turns in holding until such a fix is rolled out.


PMDG 737 for MSFS 2020: An Update Pending:
We have an update coming through test for the 737 series of products that is intended to cure the last remaining tablet connectivity issues that we haven't yet resolved in the 737 fleet. This is the one that creates a "spinning disk" that you cannot clear on the tablet for some users. We verified the fix on the 777 fleet, and have inserted the 737 build into testing and validation. It will release via micro-update to pmdg direct customers, and will be inserted to marketplace intake once it is validated. Please note that it is a holiday period, and we don't know how fast or slow it might go through marketplace for our Marketplace PC and Marketplace Xbox users.

 

2 hours ago, Speedbird 217 said:

New update from PMDG yesterday - haven't seen this posted here yet. Only a small wall of words this time. Good news is that the Cargo Door warning on the 77W has been fixed. Bad news that they still don't seem to be any closer to getting their aircraft across to MSFS24...

[12DEC24] Updates for PMDG 777 for MSFS and other tidbits for your weekend - PMDG Simulations

 

Thank goodness that blaring warning horn will be silenced, when taking off. Talk about immersion breaking. 

On 12/9/2024 at 3:12 PM, rmeier said:

Sixteen pages of threads...and plenty of nay-sayers.

Nothing invokes more emotion here on Avsim than a thread involving either PMDG or FSLabs.

 

PMDG has done well on this addition.

If PMDG posted on their forum. " Have a great day everyone", a few minutes later there would be posts on Avsim stating " How dare RR tell me what kind of day to have"...😉