11 hours ago, Aglos77 said:

No, MFS uses autogen outside of photogrammetry areas like x-plane does, outside of those areas it is very inaccurate and we are talking about most of the world map.

There are areas of the world like most of South America for example that in general looks even worse than fsx with some add-on.

We have to take off the blindfold of fanaticism, all these products at the domestic level are video games, there is no good or bad product, they all have their compromises, even professional simulators of millions of dollars have compromises.

 

To close to a single product is to miss great addons and a lot of fun, I am certainly not going to miss x-plane's CL650 or Leonardo's MD80 because of this nonsense to say two examples.

So why does XP look like a 20 year old technology sim, and has a tiny market share of sim fliers? 

4 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

It would be easy from your comment to assume you've revealed that the ONLY fact that matters to you is how amazing it LOOKS.

He literally opened his argument by talking about the MSFS platform's vastly superior avionics suite. sloppyarguments

@abrams_tank, you're wasting your time here.

32 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Entonces, ¿por qué XP parece un simulador de tecnología de hace 20 años y tiene una pequeña participación en el mercado de simuladores? 

Please don't talk nonsense,

20 years ago we could not enjoy the level of simulation offered by the CL650, Toliss or FFv2.

4 minutes ago, Aglos77 said:

Please don't talk nonsense,

20 years ago we could not enjoy the level of simulation offered by the CL650, Toliss or FFv2.

But flying over the same scenery, it still likes like word not allowed. 

6 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Pero volando sobre el mismo paisaje, todavía me gusta como una palabra no permitida. 

Yes flying over the same landscape if you don't bother to install a couple of free addons in 10 minutes.

You haven't bought any scenery for MFS ? I have spent hundreds of dollars on airports for 2020 and enjoy them immensely.

34 minutes ago, Krakin said:

He literally opened his argument by talking about the MSFS platform's vastly superior avionics suite. sloppyarguments

@abrams_tank, you're wasting your time here.

So true 🤣. I open with facts and then @sloppysmusic ignores the facts that I listed 🤣.

15 minutes ago, Aglos77 said:

Yes flying over the same landscape if you don't bother to install a couple of free addons in 10 minutes.

You haven't bought any scenery for MFS ? I have spent hundreds of dollars on airports for 2020 and enjoy them immensely.

I have paid for about 5 airports in MSFS, usually ones that I flew in and out of in real life. Total expense, less than $100 spread over a few thousand hours of flying. When I am at an airport, I spend almost no time at all looking around, busy setting up flight, and taxiing to the ramp after I land. No interest in looking around. 

Edited December 29, 20241 yr by Bobsk8

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

So true 🤣. I open with facts and then @sloppysmusic ignores the facts that I listed

People who state opinions as facts, waste of time talking with them I agree. 

 MSFS 2024 has the best default GA avionics for a flight sim, it has the best default G1000, G3000, G5000, and G3X for a flight sim. You can't even buy a better default G1000, G3000, G5000, or G3X payware version than the one in MSFS 2020/2024. And now Working Title has added the Honeywell Primus Epic 2 and Universal UNS-1 to MSFS 2024.

Who cares about default anything? There has never been anything default to compete with addon GNS units which anyone who cares will instantly buy anyway? That is also an OPINION of yours. Probably correct for default, but still an opinion by definition. 

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Would you care to comment on this topic regarding the representation of Dallas which was poor in 2020 and appears no better in 2024 unless a third party addon is used.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/660320-dallas-low-quality-scenery-tiles-even-worse-in-2024/

 

Not all cities in MSFS have photogrammetry.  For the longest time, metro Vancouver in MSFS 2020 did not have photogrammetry until the World Canada Update.  Only downtown Vancouver had photogrammetry before the World Canada Update.  Without photogrammetry, the 3D object coverage in metro Vancouver was acceptable to me though. But after the 2nd version of the World Canada Update, metro Vancouver had decent photogrammetry.  Edmonton and Calgary in Canada also had the same problem before the World Canada Update, in that only downtown had photogrammetry but not the rest of the city. Having said that, the 3D object coverage for Edmonton and Calgary before the World Canada Update was also acceptable to me.

That topic is requesting that Dallas get photogrammetry.  It doesn't have it yet, and I can only assume it takes money and time. Jorg and the MSFS team, if they want Dallas to have photogrammetry, will probably have to arrange a fly over of Dallas, and they may also request data from Dallas municipality.  Obviously, the MSFS team and probably even the Bing maps team, want photogrammetry for Dallas, but it takes money and time to get it.

Edited December 29, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

18 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Not all cities in MSFS have photogrammetry.

Can you point me to a source of the ones that have it for 2020 and 2024?
Has there been any increase in 2024? If not then you have to wonder how much has changed. Career mode we know but this is a brand new sim so improvements should be significant to justify asking up to $200 for the top version.

This site shows US cities by population. Do any lower down than Dallas have PG? https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities
What criteria is used by Microsoft to determine if a city will have it or not? Can’t imagine cost is a factor.

This is the list of PG cities in 2020. Sadly despite searching the MSFS2024 webpage it doesn’t list any PG cities. Isn’t this meant to be one of its selling points? Just two in England and lots of small towns in Texas but not Dallas? If I lived in Dallas I’d feel cheated.

25 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

should be significant to justify asking up to $200 for the top version.

Just for some clarity, the core sim is the same across all product tiers.
The Deluxe/Prem/Aviators/Collectors editions just add content in the form of aircraft & airports.

Edit to reply to the next post from Ray
That list is just the cities updated in Texas for one city update. You can find a user-created list of all World/City updates here
(note, it's current as of Oct 2024.)

Edited December 29, 20241 yr by ZLA Steve

26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Has there been any increase in 2024? If not then you have to wonder how much has changed. Career mode we know but this is a brand new sim so improvements should be significant to justify asking up to $200 for the top version.

 

If the *only* improvements/additions were career mode and world rendering visuals then one could question the cost of the new sim. But that's obviously not the case is it.. and you interestingly chose the top version for $200 to question cost justification, but that's for a version with a lot of extra aircraft.

From a previous post of mine, the base 2024 sim has these improvements/additions over 2020 (standard edition is $70, premium deluxe is $130, etc):

- improved flight dynamics, improved aircraft creation/development tools
- much improved and revamped ground handling and related physics, water physics
- much improved ground details (which also goes hand in hand with the ground physics above)
- new atmospheric photometric lighting engine, ray-traced cockpit lighting
- default birds like the ini A330, ini A321LR etc which by all accounts are of considerable fidelity for default, along with the various other default birds that have improved FMs/systems/avionics/etc
- improved rendering of clouds, clouds density, clouds lighting, new cloud types, etc
- 24hr historical snapshot of the MSFS world (not just all the MSFS weather served for the past 24 hrs but also traffic/other data)
- seasons, 3D trees, multiple diverse biomes
- a default capable and complex flight planner, LIDO charts, etc
- native dx12 support
- better multi-threading
- aviation activities, and related new physics (soft-body, load carrying, etc) and interaction with flight dynamics
- an already payware-grade avionics suite default in 2020 further improved in 2024.. and new Primus Epic 2 & Universal UNS-1
- new default EFB, improved default systems, wear and tear
- more and diverse type of AI traffic aircraft types and better livery matching
- thin client

 

Edited December 29, 20241 yr by lwt1971

24 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

 

Si las *únicas* mejoras o añadidos fueran el modo carrera y los gráficos de renderizado del mundo, entonces uno podría cuestionar el coste del nuevo simulador. Pero obviamente ese no es el caso, ¿no? Y curiosamente elegiste la versión superior por 200 dólares para cuestionar la justificación del coste, pero eso es para una versión con muchos aviones adicionales.

De una publicación anterior mía, la simulación base 2024 tiene estas mejoras/adiciones con respecto a 2020 (la edición estándar cuesta $70, la premium de lujo cuesta $130, etc.):

- dinámica de vuelo mejorada , herramientas de creación/desarrollo de aeronaves mejoradas - manejo en tierra y física relacionada muy mejorados y renovados, física del agua - detalles de tierra muy mejorados (que también van de la mano con la física de tierra anterior) - nuevo motor de iluminación fotométrica atmosférica , iluminación de cabina con trazado de rayos - aves predeterminadas como el ini A330, ini A321LR, etc., que según todos los informes son de considerable fidelidad para los predeterminados, junto con las otras aves predeterminadas que han mejorado los FM/sistemas/aviónica/etc. - representación mejorada de las nubes, densidad de las nubes, iluminación de las nubes, nuevos tipos de nubes, etc. - instantánea histórica de 24 horas del mundo MSFS (no solo todo el clima MSFS servido durante las últimas 24 horas, sino también tráfico/otros datos) - estaciones, árboles 3D, múltiples biomas diversos - un planificador de vuelo complejo y con capacidad predeterminada, gráficos LIDO, etc. - soporte nativo dx12 - mejor multihilo - actividades de aviación y nueva física relacionada (cuerpo blando, transporte de carga, etc.) e interacción con la dinámica de vuelo - una suite de aviónica de nivel de pago predeterminada en 2020 mejorada aún más en 2024... y nuevos Primus Epic 2 y Universal UNS-1 - nuevo EFB predeterminado, sistemas predeterminados mejorados, desgaste - más y diversos tipos de tráfico de IA, tipos de aeronaves y mejor combinación de libreas - cliente ligero 
 
   
  

 
 





 

 

 

And oddly enough most only talk about photogrammetry and graphics that are really only good on a small percentage of the world map, while they insist on trashing other simulators.

 

My main complaint in 2020 was the terrible physics on the ground and in the last 50 feet and the very unrealistic lighting. That seems to have gotten attention in 2024 and for me personally that's what I'm interested in, I bought 14 days of game pass because I want to try it for myself if it's really worth the expense or not for me. If it convinces me and somehow Asobo relents with an offline mode like 2020 I will buy it in the future.

46 minutes ago, ZLA Steve said:

Just for some clarity, the core sim is the same across all product tiers.
The Deluxe/Prem/Aviators/Collectors editions just add content in the form of aircraft & airports.

Thanks Steve. I’m surprised there’s no increase in PG cities. I’ve never flown default aircraft in any sim. Always third party.

47 minutes ago, ZLA Steve said:

That list is just the cities updated in Texas for one city update. You can find a user-created list of all World/City updates here

Thanks. Fort Worth but no Dallas. Do they have a no-fly zone over the city? 🤨