1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

For the default planes in 2024 such as the XCub, if one of the wheels runs over one of the AI procedurally generated rocks of at least a certain size, you can see the plane tilt.  But I think the rock has to be of a minimum size before it impacts the tire of the plane.

I am talking about the default 2024 planes though. I am not sure about imported 2020 planes.

In any case, I am beginning to form an opinion that MSFS 2024 may have the best ground handling for a civillian flight sim. I don't think XP 12 has procedurally AI generated rocks and boulders across the entire world which can impact the plane's tires when the tires run over them (I heard that custom made XP scenery can have this and then the planes in XP 12 will react accordingly, but custom scenery covers a small percentage of the world whereas MSFS 2024 has procedurally AI generated rocks and boulders that cover the entire world).

I've always avoided terrain with any sort of obstacles, even when landing out in my experience as a glider pilot. Rocks, of any size, are examples of what every pilot should avoid, either during ground operations or while taking off or landing.

But winds, crosswinds and proper techniques to deal with it, and the fact that many GA aircraft have free castoring wheels, just to give one among various examples, requires proper techniques, and I expect that a flight simulator simulating that sort of aircraft can offer a plausible model where RW principles apply.

Well, unfortunately there's no aircraft for either FS 2020 or FS 2024 whoose rw counterparts have that type of wheels, that correctly simulate their physics, far from that.

You have correct simulations and actually very plausible in X-Plane and IL-2 Great Battles.

I honestly find this, from a didactical pov, more important than procedural simulation of rocks, foliage, etc...

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by jcomm

40 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I've always avoided terrain with any sort of obstacles, even when landing out in my experience as a glider pilot. Rocks, of any size, are examples of what every pilot should avoid, either during ground operations or while taking off or landing.

But winds, crosswinds and proper techniques to deal with it, and the fact that many GA aircraft have free castoring wheels, just to give one among various examples, requires proper techniques, and I expect that a flight simulator simulating that sort of aircraft can offer a plausible model where RW principles apply.

Well, unfortunately there's no aircraft for either FS 2020 or FS 2024 whoose rw counterparts have that type of wheels, that correctly simulate their physics, far from that.

You have correct simulations and actually very plausible in X-Plane and IL-2 Great Battles.

I honestly find this, from a didactical pov, more important than procedural simulation of rocks, foliage, etc...

I'm not a real life pilot. But I do drive a car in real life. I would never drive a Honda Civic over terrain with large rocks, that would probably wreck the car.

Similarly, you wouldn't want to land a plane in similar terrain as that would wreck the plane, or even tip it over. But bush pilots have to make that decision in real life, whether the terrain is safe to land on.

That is a big, big, big minus in my book, if XP 12 does not procedurally generate rocks and boulders over the entire world, and those rocks and boulders can affect the plane on landing. That is something that MSFS 2024 can simulate and in my books, it puts the ground physics  light years ahead of XP 12, especially for people that try to land a plane outside paved/concrete runways (ie. something that real life bush pilots have to decide on).

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

12 minutes ago, jcomm said:

You have correct simulations and actually very plausible in X-Plane

I disagree, in Xplane the ground feels like the surface is ICE, and so did 2020. In 2024 it feels like the wheels grip to the ground more realisticly, making the plane flip over much more realisticly. It something that annoyed me for a long time that it was impossible to actually flip over when turning like an word not allowed just to try and crash. Never felt realistic to me… But what do I know, im just a computer pilot….

14 minutes ago, Kaboki said:

I disagree, in Xplane the ground feels like the surface is ICE, and so did 2020. In 2024 it feels like the wheels grip to the ground more realisticly, making the plane flip over much more realisticly. It something that annoyed me for a long time that it was impossible to actually flip over when turning like an word not allowed just to try and crash. Never felt realistic to me… But what do I know, im just a computer pilot….

I see your point, and I kind of agree although I would describe it as what I consider an overdone effect of winds on ground in X-Plane .. That's something I tend to find overdone in XP, since XP10 (wasn't like that as far as I recall up to XP9), and more plausibly modelled in MSFS 2024. 

I honestly don't recall much details about FS 2020 since it's been quite while since I last used it, but I use FS 2024 almost daily and I like it in that respect.

I also prefer the way FS 2024 models variable winds as reported in METAR / ATIS.

Each simulator has its best and worst things. I use MFS and X-plane.

 

I went back to simulation with 2020 but when I saw the development efforts where they were going it was in the WU and I visualized it much more than in simulation I decided to try XP12 and since then it has become my main simulator.

Of course I will not miss gems like A2A or Leonardo, but you have to understand that not everyone is looking for the same in this type of games and in the end no matter how much budget you have you can not please everyone.

4 minutes ago, Aglos77 said:

Each simulator has its best and worst things. I use MFS and X-plane.

 

I went back to simulation with 2020 but when I saw the development efforts where they were going it was in the WU and I visualized it much more than in simulation I decided to try XP12 and since then it has become my main simulator.

Of course I will not miss gems like A2A or Leonardo, but you have to understand that not everyone is looking for the same in this type of games and in the end no matter how much budget you have you can not please everyone.

I use both 50 /50 ... I like both to the exact same level, prefer things in one other things in the other.

I complain about stuff in both, equally ...

I want to see both keeping alive and kicking, progressing, getting better...

Regarding FS 2020 vs FS 2024 I honestly don't miss FS 2020 at all since I use FS 2024. It's more featured, smoother, looks better, has a lot more of interesting content like the activities and challenges which I missed since MS FLIGHT.

BATC, FSHUD and maybe AIG in the future, as well as ASFS and RealTurb v2 make the FS 2024 even better because they help bringing the simulation to a much more plausible level of "realism"...

 

6 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Yo uso ambos 50/50... Me gustan ambos exactamente al mismo nivel, prefiero cosas de uno y cosas del otro.

Me quejo de cosas en ambos, por igual...

Quiero ver a ambos seguir vivos y coleando, progresando, mejorando...

Con respecto a FS 2020 vs FS 2024, honestamente no extraño FS 2020 en absoluto desde que uso FS 2024. Tiene más funciones, es más fluido, se ve mejor, tiene mucho más contenido interesante como las actividades y desafíos que extrañaba desde MS FLIGHT.

BATC, FSHUD y quizás AIG en el futuro, así como ASFS y RealTurb v2 hacen que el FS 2024 sea aún mejor porque ayudan a llevar la simulación a un nivel de "realismo" mucho más plausible...

 

As long as Leonardo does not release his jewel in 2024, I will continue with 2020. Actually I have paid only 43 Euros for 2024 but I understand the anger of those who have paid much more money for a video game that is still an Early  access.

7 hours ago, jcomm said:

My main "investment" in FS 2024 was the promisse of better flight dynamics.

In that area I am totally disappointed - it's just like FS 2020 with tiny update to the ground physics, but still far from beng able to properly model some details like taildragger or tricycle with castoring wheels, effects of x-wind without having to mak euse of a trick that effectively reduces the normal component of wind bellow a given ground speed, etc...

But it brought me enhanced scenerye detail, more stability and performance than I had with FS 2020, a much shorter footprint in terms of installation, although I just reinstalled FS 2024 3 times and all due to problems with the way it was installed and system updates - they were not uninstalls à lá UNINSTALLER 🙂

I also find default weather has more variety in clouds depiction.

I still look forward for what was talked about in some ASOSO videos regarding the new possibilities of the FDM, like multiple surfaces being used to fine tune the aerodynamics, but as I said, the flight dynamics are as bad as in FS 2020...

The flight dynamics in v24 are incontrovertibly better overall, and i'm sorry - it's simply unreasonable to proclaim "total disappointment". Just try to fly some of the v20 addons in v24 and you'll see some "interesting" results. 🤣

I think it's unrealistic to expect that v24 itself would've fixed all the things that need fixing, and much more to the point, that all the Compatible / Native addons would be updated to take advantage of them, as well.

We see that XP's flight & physics model is in a constant state of flux. There was a HUGE improvement from v11 to v12, particularly in the area of Fast Jets and Helos. And there have been a regular series of updates since then as well.

And hey, XP has a 30 year head start, so we should expect to see that it's FM/Physics are better in areas, no...?

As always in life, we have to make choices in terms of what our simulation priorities are. And I can tell you without reservation there are many XP addons that I simply don't care to fly. A prime example is the Default C172. If I'm going to fly that type of aircraft, I'm going to stick with the AFL C172, or one of the SimCoder REP birds. THEY FLY BETTER and have better systems, engine, and physics in general.

But when it comes down to it, and due to time restrictions, on balance, I'd really rather fly the A2A Sims Comanche in v24.

OTOH, when it comes to Biz Jets, I'd rather fly the TorqueSim C525 in X-Plane.

Just like you won't soar in either XP or MSFS, right...?

And most of the .mil Fast Jets are not up to the FM / Physics standards of DCS World, so how can we claim that XP's FM/physics are the Gold Standard...?

We can't, it's that simple. And while we can go on and on and on, we've just got to accept that a LOT of the variance comes down to the 3rd Party Devs, AND the particular simulation requirements/goals.

Because one thing is for sure, if ground physics, atmospheric replication, flight model, and visual realism were the most important things for serious flight simulation, the Mil/Gov/Com space would NOT be using Prepar3D...

Just pick something that satisfies, and never give up looking for the next better thing. It's why I still have all the flight sims installed - they, or an addon within, all do SOME things better than anything else available.

6 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

You should try actually flying a real plane, it's totally different than being an expert in a PC game. 

Obviously, but my post wasn’t about how realistic 2024 is compared to real life, but how obviously different it is to 2020. 

On 1/13/2025 at 6:50 PM, MrBitstFlyer said:

I think you'll find there isn't a beta test in progress with 2024.

Yes the Alpha testing needs finishing first.😁

On 1/14/2025 at 8:18 PM, scotchegg said:

Obviously, but my post wasn’t about how realistic 2024 is compared to real life, but how obviously different it is to 2020. 

Lighting, 3D trees, realistic ground details and buildings, flight dynamics and smooth performance compared to MS2020 (on my PC at least!).

One thing I noticed and LOVE is that aircraft leave a dark trail/shadow behind it on a grass runway where the wheels have crushed the vegetation. Delightful.

There are many amazing new quite subtle effects that I keep discovering in MS2024. Another is the scratches that show up on the windscreen with the sun setting ahead of you. Very clever.

I ran MS2020 last night for the first time since I bought MS2024. At the same airport MS2020 was stuttering on Ultra but running smoothly in ULTRA on MS2024. That's a big sell for me.

Edited January 23, 20251 yr by TrafficPilot

15 minutes ago, TrafficPilot said:

Lighting, 3D trees, realistic ground details and buildings, flight dynamics and smooth performance compared to MS2020 (on my PC at least!).

One thing I noticed and LOVE is that aircraft leave a dark trail/shadow behind it on a grass runway where the wheels have crushed the vegetation. Delightful.

There are many amazing new quite subtle effects that I keep discovering in MS2024. Another is the scratches that show up on the windscreen with the sun setting ahead of you. Very clever.

I ran MS2020 last night for the first time since I bought MS2024. At the same airport MS2020 was stuttering on Ultra but running smoothly in ULTRA on MS2024. That's a big sell for me.

It's weird.  Using the same settings for me 2024 is a stuttery mess and 2020 is nice and smooth.  Bizarre. 

6 minutes ago, Langeveldt said:

It's weird.  Using the same settings for me 2024 is a stuttery mess and 2020 is nice and smooth.  Bizarre. 

Out of interest - what sort of internet connection do you have? Speed/latency etc? This could possibly effect the streaming of data from the MS2024 servers to your PC.

33 minutes ago, Langeveldt said:

It's weird.  Using the same settings for me 2024 is a stuttery mess and 2020 is nice and smooth.  Bizarre. 

Did you amp up cache size to say 125GB and disable DynamicFPS or whatever it's called in 2024?  This apparently has been transformative for some.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/661694-2-settings-make-all-the-difference/#findComment-5330900

 

Edited January 23, 20251 yr by Noel