With regard to the new flight dynamics am I correct in assuming that this only applies to planes specifically coded for 2024? Is it not the case that the A2A Comanche, the Fenix etc etc fly exactly the same as they do in 2020?

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

@Krakin, have you ever flown a real aircraft? Because you tend to rise over any oppinions given that appear not to claim how great FS 202# is, as if you had real world experience to base your oppinion on, or at leat some sound knowledge about aerodynamics and it's modelling in flight simulation?

I haven't flown a real plane and so I am forced to mostly rely on the expert opinions of those who have and do fly real planes. This is true to the point that despite your inference of my bias, I am documented as agreeing with the general consensus of real pilots that X-Plane has a better flight model than 2020 and that 2020's FM left a lot to be desired in key areas.

I didn't just try to rise above your opinion, I indicated that your erroneous claim about 2024's handling of X-wind landings has been tested and proven false. The claim (not yours) that Asobo also artificially cuts wind below 20ft to make x-wind landings more manageable was also proven false by V1. This is why I felt compelled to ask whether or not you were using the same sim the rest of us are.  

21 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

Nah, I can’t take that idea seriously at all. The differences are obvious, even to a guy like me who’s never set foot in a Cessna.

For me, I honestly can’t tell the difference. All the sims feel the same (including X-Plane), assuming we can truly “feel” anything within the constraints of a computer screen. However, this is probably because I’m not specifically looking for those differences or trying to fly by the numbers. I do have some experience—albeit many years ago—flying a Cessna 172 during PPL lessons, and no simulator comes remotely close to how it actually feels and behaves. That said, they do get the visuals spot on which I'm happy about

 

 

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

The first several months of MSFS 2020 were the worst. While people could generally download and login and play the first day of MSFS 2020, there were some people that had trouble downloading it.  But it wasn’t near as bad as MSFS 2024 on the first day.

But then MSFS 2020 was constantly CTDing, even without any add-ons being used. The stability was immensely higher after 5 months, about the time you got MSFS 2020.

If we put aside the first week of MSFS 2024 (which was a terrible first week, I’m not going to sugar coat it), 2 months into MSFS 2024, we’re in a much better spot than after 2 months of MSFS 2020.  MSFS 2024 Free Flight is generally stable if you have a well made compatible plane for it such as the default Cessna 172 G1000 or Fenix. The same couldn’t be said of MSFS 2020, 2 months after its release.

BTW, you missed the notorious peripherals bug in MSFS 2020 where certain peripherals caused and instant CTD before people even made it to the main menu on the initial load of MSFS 2020. After the first week of MSFS 2024, we have not had anything as severe as that peripherals CTD bug in the first few months of MSFS 2020.

That is exactly why I waited 5 months to get a new PC and MSFS 2020. Read reviews and waited until it was stable, same as I am doing with 2024. I like to fly, not try to fix unfixable things. 

2 minutes ago, tonywob said:

For me, I honestly can’t tell the difference. All the sims feel the same (including X-Plane), assuming we can truly “feel” anything within the constraints of a computer screen. However, this is probably because I’m not specifically looking for those differences or trying to fly by the numbers. I do have some experience—albeit many years ago—flying a Cessna 172 during PPL lessons, and no simulator comes remotely close to how it actually feels. That said, they do get the visuals spot on which I'm happy about

 

 

Agreed. Flying in a sim always feels sort of smooth, as if you are sailing like a bird through the sky. I remember how shocked I was when I had a flight in a C172 for the very first time... The entire flight felt as if I was driving on a terrible bumpy road in a car without suspension...!!! Nothing smooth about it!

3 hours ago, Krakin said:

I haven't flown a real plane and so I am forced to mostly rely on the expert opinions of those who have and do fly real planes. This is true to the point that despite your inference of my bias, I am documented as agreeing with the general consensus of real pilots that X-Plane has a better flight model than 2020 and that 2020's FM left a lot to be desired in key areas.

I didn't just try to rise above your opinion, I indicated that your erroneous claim about 2024's handling of X-wind landings has been tested and proven false. The claim (not yours) that Asobo also artificially cuts wind below 20ft to make x-wind landings more manageable was also proven false by V1. This is why I felt compelled to ask whether or not you were using the same sim the rest of us are.  

Hey @Krakin, thanks for your reply and sorry for my harsh post 😕

As I also make clear in my posts, although I have complains regarding MSFS, together with XP12, ex-aequo, my preeferred flightsims ever... 

Ah, for soaring both are equally unrealistic and I use yet another sim - Condorsoaring...

Scenery wise, activities and challenges wise and I haven't tried the Career mode, MSFS 2024 is really great!

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

Nah, I can’t take that idea seriously at all. The differences are obvious, even to a guy like me who’s never set foot in a Cessna.

You should try actually flying a real plane, it's totally different than being an expert in a PC game. 

9 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

flying a real plane, it's totally different than being (edited) in a PC game.

(Not addressed particularly to you @Bobsk8, just using your comment)

Exactly. So why do so many people on here insist on trying to compare or even conflate the two things? Personally, I've never flown a plane (nor do I want to), but I drive a car and have also used driving games a couple of times. Apart from the controls being roughly the same, there really is no comparison between the two activities. And unless you've built a physically accurate cockpit at home, complete with vibrating everything, I can't see how any sort of PC based flight sim is going to even start to replicate the experience of flying.

I imagine the same applies for Call of Duty. 

1 hour ago, tonywob said:

For me, I honestly can’t tell the difference. All the sims feel the same (including X-Plane), assuming we can truly “feel” anything within the constraints of a computer screen. However, this is probably because I’m not specifically looking for those differences or trying to fly by the numbers. I do have some experience—albeit many years ago—flying a Cessna 172 during PPL lessons, and no simulator comes remotely close to how it actually feels and behaves. That said, they do get the visuals spot on which I'm happy about

 

 

THIS!!! I completly agree. I have xplane, dcs, MSFS and IL2 and they feel almost the same, with subtle differences, and they all feel equally realistic from a simmer perspective, their just different. But too me MSFS feels most realistic not because of FDM but because what I see out of the cockpit window resembles what I see as a passenger in real planes… Thats the reason I dont fly Xplane and its plausible world. I would ditch DCS too if Microsoft made a combat sim with its engine.

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

With regard to the new flight dynamics am I correct in assuming that this only applies to planes specifically coded for 2024? Is it not the case that the A2A Comanche, the Fenix etc etc fly exactly the same as they do in 2020?

Great question! Also I would love to know... Could anyone please answer, if you know it?

I noticed that ground handling is different even for imported FS2020 planes in FS2024. But once in the air I wasn't that sure anymore.

10 minutes ago, David_CSA said:

Great question! Also I would love to know... Could anyone please answer, if you know it?

I noticed that ground handling is different even for imported FS2020 planes in FS2024. But once in the air I wasn't that sure anymore.

The A2A commanche flies exactly the same as 2020, and the ground handling doesnt seem to be implemented in it, dunno about Fenix because I dont own it.

The commanche uses an external flightmodel(i think) so probably why nothing has changed.. Still great though and pretty much all I fly is commanche because of its excellent VR turbulence function that doesnt get me sick(wish all planes had done the same). A2A will be all I fly for the unforseen future.

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by Kaboki

58 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

(Not addressed particularly to you @Bobsk8, just using your comment)

Exactly. So why do so many people on here insist on trying to compare or even conflate the two things? Personally, I've never flown a plane (nor do I want to), but I drive a car and have also used driving games a couple of times. Apart from the controls being roughly the same, there really is no comparison between the two activities. And unless you've built a physically accurate cockpit at home, complete with vibrating everything, I can't see how any sort of PC based flight sim is going to even start to replicate the experience of flying.

I took a friend flying once in a 172, and he flew flight sims at the time. We had a gusty crosswind, on approach, and he turned white.  He kept saying, " Are we alright?" 😉  I used to love crosswind landings, so I was having a blast, but he wasn't.. 

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by Bobsk8

22 minutes ago, David_CSA said:

I noticed that ground handling is different even for imported FS2020 planes in FS2024. 

For the default planes in 2024 such as the XCub, if one of the wheels runs over one of the AI procedurally generated rocks of at least a certain size, you can see the plane tilt.  But I think the rock has to be of a minimum size before it impacts the tire of the plane.

I am talking about the default 2024 planes though. I am not sure about imported 2020 planes.

In any case, I am beginning to form an opinion that MSFS 2024 may have the best ground handling for a civillian flight sim. I don't think XP 12 has procedurally AI generated rocks and boulders across the entire world which can impact the plane's tires when the tires run over them (I heard that custom made XP scenery can have this and then the planes in XP 12 will react accordingly, but custom scenery covers a small percentage of the world whereas MSFS 2024 has procedurally AI generated rocks and boulders that cover the entire world).

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

That is exactly why I waited 5 months to get a new PC and MSFS 2020. Read reviews and waited until it was stable, same as I am doing with 2024. I like to fly, not try to fix unfixable things. 

I know what you mean.  Here I am in MSFS 2024.  Stable and smooth 60fps is really upsetting me.  Default live weather is awful, and the lighting on the clouds - yuck!  What were they thinking increasing terrain detail so you can see 3d walls and hedgerows between fields?

I should have waited a few months.

 

Edited January 14, 20251 yr by MrBitstFlyer