22 hours ago, Ron Attwood said:

Anybody seen Ident?

To quote Lawrence of Arabia, "it is...as you see"

When I was a kid -- WAY back -- I knew some guys (always guys, never females) whose main interest in their automobiles was the horsepower. The greater the HP, the more to brag about! This was well-known to car makers, whose ads proclaimed the latest advances in horsepower -- never mind that most of that extra HP was useful only on race tracks, as speed limits in most places (except some western states that had no limits) made it useless in driving on streets and highways. The obsession with frame rates that I see in flight simming is, to me, very similar. I keep my sim locked at 38 fps and everything is smooth in FS2024, all the time.  I need 100 fps about as much as I need a 400HP automobile!

21 minutes ago, cobalt said:

When I was a kid -- WAY back -- I knew some guys (always guys, never females) whose main interest in their automobiles was the horsepower. The greater the HP, the more to brag about! This was well-known to car makers, whose ads proclaimed the latest advances in horsepower -- never mind that most of that extra HP was useful only on race tracks, as speed limits in most places (except some western states that had no limits) made it useless in driving on streets and highways. The obsession with frame rates that I see in flight simming is, to me, very similar. I keep my sim locked at 38 fps and everything is smooth in FS2024, all the time.  I need 100 fps about as much as I need a 400HP automobile!

It’s got nothing in comparison whatsoever and this analogy is, quite frankly, rubbish. 
 

I believe @scotchegg likes this particular analogy. 

Edited February 19, 20251 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

On 2/18/2025 at 9:40 AM, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Unless of course they were/are just stroking their ego…

They are/were stroking their ego … or just wanting more because they know they’ll get less … to suggest any human (trained or not) can identify and react to new information (a frame) presented to them every 8ms is beyond absurd.

 

3 hours ago, cobalt said:

I keep my sim locked at 38 fps and everything is smooth in FS2024, all the time.  I need 100 fps about as much as I need a 400HP automobile!

Before I got my new PC I ran at about 33fps. Following guidance from @Noel I got my FTV stable. I was very happy with the smoothness.

I was in a thread where @Ianrivaldosmith pointed out a much higher FPS was smoother - didn't really believe it.  

My new PC with DLSS 4, Frame generation and AutoFPS means I can run at a consistent 120fps.

I eat my earlier words because 120fps is stunning. 38fps with stable FTV is very acceptable - but it really doesn't compare with 100 plus FPS.

On 2/18/2025 at 9:41 AM, flyingscampi said:

smooth and clear on the 165 Mhz screen, but slightly blurry on the 60 Mhz

Blurry (and/or ghosting) would indicate a pixel response time issue and not a refresh rate issue (two are very different).

1 minute ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I eat my earlier words because 120fps is stunning. 38fps with stable FTV is very acceptable - but it really doesn't compare with 100 plus FPS

You will need to provide some context, 120 FPS doesn’t really mean anything unless you include what frequency your monitor is operating at and if it’s locked to a frequency and/or has VRR (often called GSync or FreeSync) and what range VRR supports (most operate from 48-120Hz) … nVidia provide a listed of monitors and their supported refresh rates here:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/g-sync-monitors/specs/

 

1 minute ago, CO2Neutral said:

You will need to provide some context, 120 FPS doesn’t really mean anything unless you include what frequency your monitor is operating at and if it’s locked to a frequency and/or has VRR (often called GSync or FreeSync) and what range VRR supports (most operate from 48-120Hz) … nVidia provide a listed of monitors and their supported refresh rates here:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/g-sync-monitors/specs/

 

Monitor is 240hz with VRR.

3 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

You will need to provide some context,

He has. Re read his post. 

20 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

They are/were stroking their ego … or just wanting more because they know they’ll get less … to suggest any human (trained or not) can identify and react to new information (a frame) presented to them every 8ms is beyond absurd.

 

So, you disagree with their research? Where is your counter research to say that theirs is ‘absurd’? I can notice the difference in fluidity from 60 to 120FPS quite easily. 
 
quoting @sloppysmusic 

Nothing more immersion killing than a fast slideshow to remind you you're not actually there at all but watching multiple static images in a row simulating movement. 

Edited February 19, 20251 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

18 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Blurry (and/or ghosting) would indicate a pixel response time issue and not a refresh rate issue (two are very different).

No, they’re not. As evidenced:-

https://www.testufo.com

 

 

15 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

You will need to provide some context, 120 FPS doesn’t really mean anything unless you include ...

...the other key elements of 'performance', including all elements of image quality & detail.  I am maxed out for image quality for all sliders except TLOD at 300 on the ground and resolution using PrimaryScaling set at 140 or 4816x2016, AMD FidFX 200, GFE Details Filter max sharpened, and TLOD at 300 so now have no ghosting of characters that I had using DLSS4 + DLAA.  These elements combined are producing incredible detail and clarity but the cost of that in the Longitude in 2024 means a frame rate of around 70FPS-fg at the departure airport with FSLTL and BATC running as well as SLC.  And this gives headroom up to around 80FPS-fg.  I still believe having some headroom is useful for accommodating transient spikes in demand.  So yes, a frame rate of 120 w/o referring to complete settings is not fully useful. 

Turns out DLSS4 preset K or even C don't do well with the new cloud rendering methodology which generates this depending on lighting and angles of view.  This image was edited to highlight the grid which is much more faint in 2024 but still is very undesirable to me.  Fortunately going back to TAA gets rid of this.

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I can notice the difference in fluidity from 60 to 120FPS quite easily. 

(btw I worked in video editing for 20 years as a side job from SD to 4k 480p to UHD/34-60)

This is also obvious but in a different way. 30-60 goes from obvious strobing when you pan around to almost imperceptible smoothness. If you watch objects move around outside or pan a lot there is not a huge difference between 60-120 but your eyes/brain notice it for sure. It LOOKS real as opposed to a very close approximation of it.

If you walk around a large TV showroom (Best Buy used to do it for me) you see the difference between 60/120 on movies/tv shows very obviously. Even though the source was shot 24 or 60 upscaled to 120 it's like looking through a window at 120 whereas 60 is obviously a show playing.

24p was/is the gold standard for movie production but the rules were different then. Camera operators were trained to NEVER rack/pull/pan at anything but a SLOOOOOOW rate. For very good reason. Now they carry the darn things and shake them around without even a Steadicam for this 'reality tv' garbage and without 60 MINIMUM the audience would need little brown bags for the performance.

1 hour ago, Noel said:

So yes, a frame rate of 120 w/o referring to complete settings is not fully useful

All settings on highest available for each settings. Some are off like motion blur.

TLOD set by AutoFPS - low 50 at 100ft to 400 at 2500ft. DLLSwapper used for DLSS 4 file instalation.  Nvidia app uninstalled (stopped 2024 loading). NVidia Inspector used to set FG/RR/K.

I run DLSS at Quality settings on 4K, 240 Hz OLED monitor.  HDR is on. RivaTuner set to 120fps, front edge sync.

Pre DLSS 4 I couldn't quite maintain a completely smooth 120 FPS, but I can with DLSS 4.  Driver is 572.xx (not at home, 300 miles away 😁). Over really complex scenery, like Los Angeles,  FPS will drop a little to approx 100, but VRR sorts that out.

There is a definite fluidity improvement over 60fps.

 

2 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

They are/were stroking their ego … or just wanting more because they know they’ll get less … to suggest any human (trained or not) can identify and react to new information (a frame) presented to them every 8ms is beyond absurd.

You still dont get it, so let it be please...