3 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

You’re at the mercy of so much not under your own control.

And yet Ray after now maybe 40 flights in 2024 it's been fully compatible with GSX, Self Loading Cargo, BATC and I've yet to have a lockup, CTD or other. The only real difference in this regard compared to P3D is your internet connection needs to be decent.  Now of course if their servers suddenly die or if MS pulls the plug then sure you're SOL, but you're also SOL when your local power company or even internet connection goes awry.  I forget with P3D needs internet connection to operate but everything else seems to:  Simbrief, BATC, SLC, APL, etc.

@Noel, rather than type my reasons again I’ll just refer you to my post in the P3D section.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/662414-why-i’ll-be-sticking-with-p3dv5/

 

I did another flight in FSHUD last night. F28 from KSYR-KELM.

I was very impressed with the vectoring. I had to do a self-induced go around and while it didn't have me follow the published the vectoring was logical. I am not grading it against that since the reason I did the go around was I was not lined up on the runway. KELM has approach holds and I've never seen either ATC program use them. That said, I do want to listen to live ATC playbacks and see how it works in real life.

I noticed it didn't clear me direct to my first waypoint either.

I also like it handles defunct airlines very well.

On the BATC side, Wednesday I did KALB-KBTV and it refused to give me a clearance between the first waypoint was more than 8 miles from either end of the route. This route only has one waypoint.

While the voices are still a big negative, I think I will pony up for the FS24 version this weekend.

46 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

 

While the voices are still a big negative, I think I will pony up for the FS24 version this weekend.

Regarding the voices, that is an understatement. 😉

58 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

KELM has approach holds and I've never seen either ATC program use them. 

I noticed it didn't clear me direct to my first waypoint either.

FSHud doesn't (yet?) do holds - it's been mentioned on the discord and the developer suggested they might be implemented sometime in the future.

Not clearing direct to the first waypoint on a departure with no SID is something I've seen too. In my case the runway heading was close (but not too close) to the heading to the initial waypoint, which might cause the bug to occur. Maybe this will be picked up when the developer introduces better enforcement of adherence to the plan, which is currently lacking.

19 minutes ago, ConstVoid said:

FSHud doesn't (yet?) do holds - it's been mentioned on the discord and the developer suggested they might be implemented sometime in the future.

YEah, fair point. Holds in general I think are hard to program.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Noel, rather than type my reasons again I’ll just refer you to my post in the P3D section.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/662414-why-i’ll-be-sticking-with-p3dv5/

 

I had read your post a while back and already understood why you're still happy with P3D or should I say won't update out of P3D.  I was only remarking on this comment of yours, "I could never use a sim as my primary simulator when so much of it is not stored on my own computer. You’re at the mercy of so much not under your own control." 

I mentioned the fact I've had little issues so far w/ 2024 despite its greater cloud based architecture.  Sure there will be the odd time when it's helpful to have more stored on the local device but it's a fantasy IMO to think you're really shielded from much.  In trade for that dependency we have much faster installation, update and load times.  I believe minor background updates are broadcast to all users as well.   I remember just how complex and time consuming it was to reinstall all of P3D and the $1000 worth of addons way back when.  When in 2024's tenuous state a week ago when others discovered settings changed for SU Beta users I also discovered the Premium Deluxe package I had suddenly went AWOL.   Uninstalled and reinstalled 2024 in a matter minutes.

44 minutes ago, Noel said:

I mentioned the fact I've had little issues so far w/ 2024 despite its greater cloud based architecture.  

Could you kindly comment on what your estimate of the minimum speed of Internet connection is required.

40 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

Could you kindly comment on what your estimate of the minimum speed of Internet connection is required.

I don't have one, an estimate, and I'm sure it been mentioned ad nauseum elsewhere.

Quite frankly I'm amazed by the folks here willing to help advance this essentially alpha release of the new sim.  I held off installing til around 6 weeks ago despite buying pre-release and while it's overall been pretty solid and I can appreciate its improvements 2020 is still an awesome solid and mature product that works well with every add-on.  I could uninstall 2024 and be a happy camper but as I say it's been okay.  Despite its clearly cited improvements the total experience for me is just so similar.  Last eve I did a fly from NZAA to NZQN in the A320nx and it was fabulously lovely the entire way.  IF I really had a hankering to take on a SECOND sim, I'd def go after XP12, despite being very unimpressed w/ its DEMO.  I could care less if P3D ups and dies, never could tolerate how it was rolled out with its phony EULA that cost honest/stupid me $600 for upgrades which were laughable by today's standards save the port to 64-bit which had some value though I never experienced an OOM oddly enough.  And the fact that it's purveyed by the biggest supplier of bombs and destructive weaponry worldwide, ones that indiscriminately destroy massive infrastructure let alone people.   

If you're struggling at all with 2024 simple stick with 2020 it still beats everything else out there.

Edited March 28, 20251 yr by Noel

7 hours ago, Noel said:

I don't have one, an estimate, and I'm sure it been mentioned ad nauseum elsewhere.

Quite frankly I'm amazed by the folks here willing to help advance this essentially alpha release of the new sim.  I held off installing til around 6 weeks ago despite buying pre-release and while it's overall been pretty solid and I can appreciate its improvements 2020 is still an awesome solid and mature product that works well with every add-on.  I could uninstall 2024 and be a happy camper but as I say it's been okay.  Despite its clearly cited improvements the total experience for me is just so similar.  Last eve I did a fly from NZAA to NZQN in the A320nx and it was fabulously lovely the entire way.  IF I really had a hankering to take on a SECOND sim, I'd def go after XP12, despite being very unimpressed w/ its DEMO.  I could care less if P3D ups and dies, never could tolerate how it was rolled out with its phony EULA that cost honest/stupid me $600 for upgrades which were laughable by today's standards save the port to 64-bit which had some value though I never experienced an OOM oddly enough.  And the fact that it's purveyed by the biggest supplier of bombs and destructive weaponry worldwide, ones that indiscriminately destroy massive infrastructure let alone people.   

If you're struggling at all with 2024 simple stick with 2020 it still beats everything else out there.

I'll agree with your last comment. As for the rest, though - "essentially alpha release of the new sim". I have to disagree - MSFS2024 is working 100% fine for me. I'm happy that you've got MSFS2020 to a stage where it's "fabulously lovely the entire way". That's how I got MSFS2024 working at this stage, by the way. It's been like that for several months now. As for the rest re: P3D and "destructive weaponry" - I'm surprised no-one else has commented on this.

In terms of BATC, I've had some very nice flights over the last few days, switching between the experimental branch and the EA branch. I just finished a flight from KPDX to KSFO in EA which was near perfect, in terms of ATC instructions. 

10 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Regarding the voices, that is an understatement. 😉

You keep pounding on this. Whereas in reality, BATC voices can be equally terrible. Here's an example of a not-so-excellent voice of Portland ATIS from a flight I completed earlier today (EA branch, basic voices):

In my opinion, the voices are generally better with BATC. But some of the voices can be quite terrible. 

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

In my opinion, the voices are generally better with BATC. But some of the voices can be quite terrible. 

To be fair, in this case I think it's representing the text-to-voice a lot of ATISs use.

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

You keep pounding on this. Whereas in reality, BATC voices can be equally terrible. Here's an example of a not-so-excellent voice of Portland ATIS from a flight I completed earlier today (EA branch, basic voices):

In my opinion, the voices are generally better with BATC. But some of the voices can be quite terrible. 

Atis always sounds weird, no matter where or when you fly. It was like that years ago, and still is today. What you hear in your video, you will hear all over the US. It's called realism.. This is the atis right now at the busiest airport in the world, KATL    https://www.liveatc.net/hlisten.php?mount=katl_atis_arr&icao=katl

Edited March 29, 20251 yr by Bobsk8

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I'll agree with your last comment. As for the rest, though - "essentially alpha release of the new sim". I have to disagree - MSFS2024 is working 100% fine for me. I'm happy that you've got MSFS2020 to a stage where it's "fabulously lovely the entire way". That's how I got MSFS2024 working at this stage, by the way. It's been like that for several months now. As for the rest re: P3D and "destructive weaponry" - I'm surprised no-one else has commented on this.

In terms of BATC, I've had some very nice flights over the last few days, switching between the experimental branch and the EA branch. I just finished a flight from KPDX to KSFO in EA which was near perfect, in terms of ATC instructions. 

I can't agree nor disagree.  2024 as I have said in the thread has worked quite well overall, but for example on a fly from KSFO > KDEN just yesterday upon arrival into 16L the runway was blurry has heck could hardly make it out from 5 miles out--have not seen anything like that in 2020.  And a few little things that just don't work as well.  The 787X which I'm using has not been fully upgraded to 2020 version's capabilities, things like that.  Alpha release is probably the wrong word--it's just hamstrung compared to 2020 as all addons work very well in 2020 inc PMDG, AS, FBW 320nx, etc.  So it just feels limited.  And sometimes ground textures actually look better in 2020 which I did not anticipate.  Put another way:  if 2024 died tomorrow I'd still be enjoying 2020 for what it is.

BATC is a great program overall and instructions do seem to be improving even to me who is not an ATC wizard.  As for FSHud's voices I did chat w/ the dev about that and he assured me the depressed sounding UK female controller is going to be replaced in the next update.  I think he also said 'premium voices' would not be a part of FSHud.  I am loving my method of judicious use of Premium voices in BATC by using only controllers, and using only BATC's ATC not its traffic which cuts way down on ATC interactions with other traffic and so with that much lower character use.  Also some of the voices you can choose for the auto respond are just great and you need to be using Premium voices to access them but I don't think they are chewing up characters though have to look again.  Anyway they sound awesome now and don't get used up very fast.

10 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

To be fair, in this case I think it's representing the text-to-voice a lot of ATISs use.

Yeah I think that's fair. I could have used some examples of almost impossible to understand Asian voices - but the point is that I'm more happy with BATC regional accents than other ATC addons. I just wanted to counter the argument by @Bobsk8 that BATC has much better voices. IMO - yes - most of the time.