15 hours ago, edpatino said:

They (MS/Asobo) are not interested to really fix MSFS2020 (AI traffic, better Maps, etc.), otherwise they'll never sell one copy of MSFS2024 anymore.

I am very curious to see how they move forward now. Something is cooking in their minds for MSFS2028 (if that's the next thing) and i'm even scared to guess, looking at what they did with 2024's UI.

11 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

2020 had a great run!  It still works really well!  There are a handful of really high end addons.  I made a TON of free liveries for 2020 addons - I spent countless hours on those...  but am happy to adapt my skills and do what needs to be done for 2024.  Does no one remember that we had FS2000, FS2002, 2004 (FS9), FSX???  Yet people are whining about 4 years of an incredible sim...

What do people expect?  Free content updates/upgrades forever more?

Sure it's a bit frustrating that 2024 isn't as backwards compatible as Asobo claimed, but I'm happy to support the next generation of Microsoft Flight Simulator just as I support Laminar's X Plane 12.  I love what both sims have to offer and I will continue to support developers and addon developers for each!

I get what you’re saying and it all makes logical and emotional sense. 
 

However……..with the launch of 2020 back in August of 2020, Adobo and Microsoft said they would support the platform for 10 years. With hindsight being 2020, that came to be a very misleading statement. Especially when they make a brand new platform that is absolute trash compared to what they have refined the dimming experience to be. 
 

It doesn’t look good to support 2020….a much better dimming experience with BS sim updates while the newer version of the platform is waffling in wind. 
 

Anyways, if I had a 5090, I wouldn’t think 2024 was bad at all. 😆 

34 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

However……..with the launch of 2020 back in August of 2020, Adobo and Microsoft said they would support the platform for 10 years. With hindsight being 2020, that came to be a very misleading statement.

I just want to address this.

It may have been misleading to you but Support does not mean update.   The two are not synonymous, they are very different statements.  

They ARE supporting MSFS everyday with the server infrastructure, live weather, online functionality bing textures etc etc etc.  All of those things are "supporting" the platform.

Updates are something else entirely.  

With that said, SU16 may be light but as long as it doesn't break anything else I could care less.  They also just delivered South America a few months ago. 

I for one have a very stable 2020 base platform that is still getting digital twin updates to match 2024 so I am happy.  I wish they would fix the AI LOD they broke and a few other things but if they never updated them I would be fine.  

Just because people "assumed" they would get updates for 10 years is on them.

Typical Software policy:

End of Sale announcement:  Product will be unavailable for sale after X date and should include the other milestones listed below.

End of Sale

End of product updates

End of Software support

End of Vulnerability support "if applicable"

End of Support typically 5 yrs from end of sale but obviously MS could pull the plug on the servers the day after End of Sale.

 

Resume normal complaining now.

  

I wish that they would update the Bing scenery now so that I could start using my EHLE Lelystad scenery again. Not feeling comfortable enough to use a perfectly good airport addon because the terrain scenery close to it is seriously flawed is rather annoying.

Edited June 4, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

1 hour ago, Nuno Pinto said:

I am very curious to see how they move forward now. Something is cooking in their minds for MSFS2028 (if that's the next thing) and i'm even scared to guess, looking at what they did with 2024's UI.

There will be no FS2028 version.

su16 will not automatic load when i start when sim comes up my version is still 1.38.2 not 1.39.2 first time has not updated  to newest update automaticly

2 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I get what you’re saying and it all makes logical and emotional sense. 
 

However……..with the launch of 2020 back in August of 2020, Adobo and Microsoft said they would support the platform for 10 years. With hindsight being 2020, that came to be a very misleading statement. Especially when they make a brand new platform that is absolute trash compared to what they have refined the dimming experience to be. 
 

It doesn’t look good to support 2020….a much better dimming experience with BS sim updates while the newer version of the platform is waffling in wind. 
 

Anyways, if I had a 5090, I wouldn’t think 2024 was bad at all. 😆 

They'd support the platform.  The platform being the MSFS franchise.  When I bought 2020 I didn't think it would get updates for a decade.  I'm amazed we got updates for 4 years - for free.

I'm also amazed you think 24 is trash.  You're a pilot irl and 2024 is already more realistic (than 20) for basic aeronautical items like ground physics, flight physics during a crosswind landing, air mass in relation to terrain and wake turbulence.  The airport beacons are finally working at night (they never really worked in 2020), the ground texture resolution (airports etc) is much better (the overall imagery is slightly reduced though due to LOD - according to dev forums they are working on a better system).  The atmosphere and lighting is vastly more realistic than 20 even while using Atmos.

2024 is less demanding on your PC than 20, and it loads so much quicker thanks to the cloud.

I was talking to Raul at FSReborn - the new native 2024 features are so cool - like rain clearing from wipers, bug splats, metallic paint flake textures, wear and tear.

I literally think people forgot how trash the release of 2020 was - and you're so quick to just think Asobo is abandoning 2020.  They're not.  Obviously though they're moving to focus more on 2024, it's their newest project and it needs a lot of work still just like 2020 did in its first year.

No one is forcing anyone to move to 2024.   Stay with 2020!  More bandwidth for me in 24 🙂

 

 

2 hours ago, filou said:

There will be no FS2028 version.

So probably just updates like Windows 11 is, i guess? I wonder how they will make money like this.

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

2024 is less demanding on your PC than 20, and it loads so much quicker thanks to the cloud.

Does this means that 2024 will work better than 2020 on my PC?

I’m surprised they would spend any development time on MSFS 2020, especially this long after MS 2024 release.  There might be some cross-over bug fixing … example bug in MSFS 2020 that also exists in MSFS 2024 so a “bug fix” would be applied to both platforms (kill two birds with one stone).

MSFS 2024 is an evolution of MSFS 2020, NOT an entirely new product from scratch.

There are several obvious visual issues that still exist in both platforms:

1.  AI traffic mostly brain dead (flying across a main runway at 500 ft AGL, disappearing, spinning, taxi into water, etc.)

2.  Water tiles rendering late with lines/bars

3.  Shadow and/or Ambient Occlusion renders like a paint brush in close proximity (much more noticeable on turns)

4.  Obvious delineation of LOD radius when rendering buildings/trees

To be honest, I don’t think they are going to address any of the 4 issues above regardless of 2020 or 2024 … maybe #2 above, but #1 they’ll leave to 3rd party, #3 fix would be a performance reduction (aka lower FPS), #4 same as #3

 

Edited June 4, 20251 yr by CO2Neutral

They need to start thinking more "as real as it gets", and not "as lean as it gets".

Edited June 4, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

5 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

They'd support the platform.  The platform being the MSFS franchise.  When I bought 2020 I didn't think it would get updates for a decade.  I'm amazed we got updates for 4 years - for free.

I'm also amazed you think 24 is trash.  You're a pilot irl and 2024 is already more realistic (than 20) for basic aeronautical items like ground physics, flight physics during a crosswind landing, air mass in relation to terrain and wake turbulence.  The airport beacons are finally working at night (they never really worked in 2020), the ground texture resolution (airports etc) is much better (the overall imagery is slightly reduced though due to LOD - according to dev forums they are working on a better system).  The atmosphere and lighting is vastly more realistic than 20 even while using Atmos.

2024 is less demanding on your PC than 20, and it loads so much quicker thanks to the cloud.

I was talking to Raul at FSReborn - the new native 2024 features are so cool - like rain clearing from wipers, bug splats, metallic paint flake textures, wear and tear.

I literally think people forgot how trash the release of 2020 was - and you're so quick to just think Asobo is abandoning 2020.  They're not.  Obviously though they're moving to focus more on 2024, it's their newest project and it needs a lot of work still just like 2020 did in its first year.

No one is forcing anyone to move to 2024.   Stay with 2020!  More bandwidth for me in 24 🙂

 

 

I rarely see you this animated so this topic must be important to you.

all the things you said are correct and factual. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!

I and many others have not had the same experience you are posting about. 
 

To this day, still! When flying in 2024, my terrain and the textures being streamed from bing are blurry and get even more blurry the longer I fly. I have watched clear terrain textures flip to mush in a matter of seconds shortly after takeoff. I don’t have this issue in 2020. But why in 2024? My internet is 500Mb/sec. I see for the most part that 2024 isn’t downloading anything. 0.00 in developer mode fps counter. 
 

2024 still crashes on start up for me.

I stopped using 2024 when it started stuttering on takeoff roll and below 200 feet during landing. 
 

VRAM usage is insane! I can’t run it at 4k without lowering my settings compared to 2020 on my 4080. 
 

all the aerodynamic and flight dynamic stuff is really nice. The added web and all the native features are really nice. When it works! It works 50% of the time for me. That isn’t good enough. 
 

this is a very short list of the big issues I’ve had with 2024.

 

You are correct, the release of 2020 was not great. But for me, it was not nearly as bad as 2024. 
 

I never expected msfs 2020 to go on continually for 10 years. However, if this was the plan, then asoon and Microsoft should have been clear from the beginning. They weren’t. They are very good at leaving plausible deniability on the table. 
 

I am currently saving up for a new GPU. Once that purchase is made, then I’ll stick with 2024. As for now, I only use it for GA. I’d like to use it for both GA and airliners. 
 

I overall think 2024 is a step in the right direction and a good one too. For what it’s worth.

2 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I rarely see you this animated so this topic must be important to you.

To ths day, still! When flying in 2024, my terrain and the textures being streamed from bing are blurry and get even more blurry the longer I fly. I have watched clear terrain textures flip to mush in a matter of seconds shortly after takeoff. I don’t have this issue in 2020. But why in 2024? My internet is 500Mb/sec. I see for the most part that 2024 isn’t downloading anything. 0.00 in developer mode fps counter. 
 

2024 still crashes on start up for me.

VRAM usage is insane! I can’t run it at 4k without lowering my settings compared to 2020 on my 4080. 

You are correct, the release of 2020 was not great. But for me, it was not nearly as bad as 2024. 
 

I never expected msfs 2020 to go on continually for 10 years. However, if this was the plan, then asoon and Microsoft should have been clear from the beginning. They weren’t. They are very good at leaving plausible deniability on the table. 
 

I am currently saving up for a new GPU. Once that purchase is made, then I’ll stick with 2024. As for now, I only use it for GA. I’d like to use it for both GA and airliners. 
 

I overall think 2024 is a step in the right direction and a good one too. For what it’s worth.

It's definitely important to me.  The last thing I want is to see MSFS fail.  It is 100% on Microsoft/Asobo for the abysmal launch of 2024.  I didn't think the new sim would be launched in such a poor state.  It's taken SU2 to get it into a reasonable state (and SU3 has excellent signs of improvement especially for VRAM).  But there's still a lot of work to do imo.

I agree with your frustration regarding terrain clarity.  It is my honest opinion that the sim does this to support Xbox.  I spent 4k on my PC to get top-tier visuals in 2020 and now 24 (back in covid).  Xbox X can not compete with a 4k PC.  They really need to have two versions - I suppose that means more chances of bugs, more support, more cost etc, but it needs to be done.  I remember just before the launch of 24 I was running a sweet setup on 2020 with MSFS map enhancement - the new bing aerials were so sharp!  I was salivating just thinking about running that in 2024.  I'm absolutely on your side there.  Thankfully, Eric from Asobo has been taking feedback (from quite frustrated devs) regarding LOD over at the Asobo developer forums.  They are making some good changes but it may be till SU3 or 4 until end users see that in a non-beta state.  

Sorry to hear the sim is CTDing on startup.  You've probably already tried running with a clean setup (no community addons installed).  But there's one other option that worked for me!  Deleting your cloud settings...  BE ADVISED, this wipes your logbook, and your key bindings, and your game settings and turns them all to default.  I had this issue - the startup video was freezing, or sometimes I could boot to the main menu and then it froze and CTD.  Here's the article (look at the bottom of the page - "How to Delete Your Cloud Save")  https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/17060350083612-How-to-delete-a-cloud-save-to-fix-some-loading-or-crashing-issues-Crashing-on-the-identity-screen-spawning-inside-buildings - In my opinion, Asobo had corrupt cloud data from the launch of 2024 and it was stuck with my profile somewhere in the cloud.  It took me an hour or two to redo all my bindings and settings but it was worth it - I've not had the issue again.

On the VRAM, SU2 should be a lot better than RTM, but SU3 brings good improvements as I said above.  Also, make sure RTX shadows are disabled if you're struggling with VRAM.  But overall it seems to use less vram than 2020 did with similar settings (DX12).  Another issue is 2020 scenery uses DDS textures, which aren't as efficient as the new KTX2 files they use on native 2024 addons.  So if you're like me you're running FlightBeam 2020 addons in 2024 and it crushes vram.  (Another reason why I'm annoyed that Asobo pushed the backwards compatibility - 2024 is really a new sim, it's quite different from a dev standpoint).  The 2024 native texture files are more efficient with VRAM.

Perhaps Asobo did mean to support it for 10 years - I guess I never thought of it that way - but maybe Microsoft said "no"  Above my pay grade.

I heard good things about the 4080 Super - I've got a regular 4080 (bought in during covid prices gross!) in SU3 beta it was handling everything on ultra, with addons, and lots of clouds pretty well - I can't go above TLOD 200 with all that though, otherwise the vram is maxed.  But in 2020 in dx12 my vram was pegged like all the time even in the rural areas.  But I love eye candy so I ran all the settings plus all the lovely payware!

It's a great time to be a flight simmer!  You should also look at XP12 - their team has made some amazing strides with visuals, and they already have an excellent foundation when it comes to aerodynamics/aerospace features.  They have a good assortment of third party airliners like the Toliss stuff, the oddly freeware 737 (oddly because it's THAT good), Flight Factor stuff, and the X-Crafts Embraer E Jets.  I'd totally give it a shot but be willing to spend more than an hour with it - it's completely different from MSFS-land.  PM me if you do and need any assistance!  

Also thanks for replying!  It's nice to have a good discussion about the state of the sim - I think so many people wrote Asobo off after the 24 launch and haven't looked back.  I wrote off 2020 during the tech alpha - or nearly so.  I figured there's no way I'd be using that sim based on how terrible the default aircraft were.  I wonder if anyone remembers 2020 before WorkingTitle stepped up?!?  Thankfully they're still hard at working fixing avionics bugs and working on the Embraer Praetor's Pro Line Fusion among other juicy projects.  I cannot wait for that Praetor!

 

Well, the number of people using fs2024 has been dropping steadily since launch, while fs2020 has remained quite steady by comparison and is increasingly the dominate platform. 

Quote

According to Steam Charts, the average concurrent player counts over recent months are:

    MSFS 2020:

        November 2024: 5,952 average players

        December 2024: 5,021

        January 2025: 5,017

        February 2025: 4,721

        Last 30 Days: 4,732
        

    MSFS 2024:

        November 2024: 6,065 average players

        December 2024: 3,879

        January 2025: 3,022

        February 2025: 2,389

        Last 30 Days: 2,354

Several factors have contributed to the sustained popularity of MSFS 2020 over MSFS 2024:

• Technical Issues at Launch: MSFS 2024 faced significant technical challenges upon release, including server overloads that prevented many users from accessing the game.    
• Add-on Compatibility: Many third-party add-ons developed for MSFS 2020 were not immediately compatible with MSFS 2024, leading users to stick with the older version where their investments remained functional.    
• Performance Stability: Users have reported that MSFS 2020 offers a more stable and smoother experience compared to MSFS 2024, which has been described as "buggy" and "stuttery" by some in the community.

 

11 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

2024 is less demanding on your PC than 20

Strangely, this is true. Apart from the well known VRAM management issue, 2024 runs smoother, FPS is also relatively higher (when it works).