So I have to go through all that, fill my storage with a bunch of add-ons for it to still not look as good as 2024 and that's before I even use one add-on in 2024...

Only if you want to...and probably not a good idea anyway if you want to stay thinking FS24 is the best thing ever in all respects.

I fly 85% FS20, 10% XPlane and 5% FS24.

XPlane because it does some things really well and as a real-life glider pilot it flies physically closer to what I expect.

FS24 to see if they've fixed it yet.

And the final reason to keep XPlane going is just-in-case... Microsoft pull the plug AGAIN.

XP, to me, reminds me of flying in P3D. A major step backwards.

To be fair, Bob.....you also consider flying in MSFS 2024 as a major step backwards

16 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

but now I have seen how XP12 does it, MSFS is REALLY poor in comparison.

I did a night lighting comparison at LOWS yesterday and it was clear to me the main issue is all is too bright in MSFS even out to the sky which is a dark grey as if my display's backlight was showing, whereas in XP12 it was pitch black.   This suggests to me a minor tweak would get them close enough to make them highly comparable.  

55 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

To be fair, Bob.....you also consider flying in MSFS 2024 as a major step backwards

Until it is ready for prime time, I do. 😉

16 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

but now I have seen how XP12 does it, MSFS is REALLY poor in comparison.

I did a night lighting comparison at LOWS yesterday and it was clear to me the main issue is all is too bright in MSFS even out to the sky which is a dark grey as if my display's backlight was showing, whereas in XP12 it was pitch black.   This suggests to me a minor tweak would get them close enough to make them

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

You need to install the XP Map Enhancement tool to get satellite imagery into XP12.  Yes, XP12 needs an addon for the satellite imagery, but it is there. Together with SimHeaven for accurate building placement/size, the two images will be much closer.

Yep, already have all of that, all over the world as well and bonus--takes no installation, loads very fast now in 24.

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

As I said to you, XP12 needs to be used over a period of time so you can get an overall impression

As I've said in several spots I understand it takes time, installation, knowledge etc to get XP up to what it can be.  The issue is that the differences are hardly stark.  I've seen *some* atmospherics that are an improvement but XP12 suffers identically w/ the limitations imposed by voxel volumetric rendering that MSFS does.  As I said XP would have to be massively ahead of MSFS24 for me to jump in deeper than the DEMO, and it's hardly that.  I think LR was lame to not enhance their 15 minute stop at LOWS to try to nudge newbies to buy the full product.

The reality is MSFS is way too satisfying to chase a few things that might be an improvement in XPlane 12.  I'm very happy it's there should MSFS fold ever.

Duplicate

Edited June 12, 2025Jun 12 by Noel

58 minutes ago, Noel said:

As I said XP would have to be massively ahead of MSFS24 for me to jump in deeper than the DEMO, and it's hardly that.

There is the major problem with XP12, the initial perception with the demo. A few addons takes the demo to a whole new level (all the addons work with the demo, no need to purchase), but I don't blame anybody for not wanting to put the time in to see XP12 at its best.  I'm glad I did, because there are less annoyances in XP12 than MSFS for me.  I have been so positive about MSFS for so long, but so many things that have annoyed me have not been fixed.

The turning point for me was somebody posting it is not likely the short viewing distance of airborne traffic will ever be fixed, because the way LODS work in MSFS - that was my time to check out XP12.  I had the same impression as you with XP12 - the initial perception is not so good.  However, I loaded up at EGKA (Shoreham) in the UK.  How surprised was I to see two helicopters plus several aircraft in the circuit that I COULD SEE!  An airliner was flying overhead at FL330 and I could see it!  I could see many aircraft inbound and outbound from Gatwick!  All that was required was LiveTraffic (free).

MSFS is obviously a fantastic sim, but I am so glad I discovered a sim that fixes the issues I have with it.

Edited June 12, 2025Jun 12 by MrBitstFlyer

19 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

There is the major problem with XP12, the initial perception with the demo. A few addons takes the demo to a whole new level (all the addons work with the demo, no need to purchase), but I don't blame anybody for not wanting to put the time in to see XP12 at its best.  I'm glad I did, because there are less annoyances in XP12 than MSFS for me.  I have been so positive about MSFS for so long, but so many things that have annoyed me have not been fixed.

The turning point for me was somebody posting it is not likely the short viewing distance of airborne traffic will ever be fixed, because the way LODS work in MSFS - that was my time to check out XP12.  I had the same impression as you with XP12 - the initial perception is not so good.  However, I loaded up at EGKA (Shoreham) in the UK.  How surprised was I to see two helicopters plus several aircraft in the circuit that I COULD SEE!  An airliner was flying overhead at FL330 and I could see it!  I could see many aircraft inbound and outbound from Gatwick!  All that was required was LiveTraffic (free).

MSFS is obviously a fantastic sim, but I am so glad I discovered a sim that fixes the issues I have with it.

Sounds like you found what you need.  I have too, going on 5 years now.  I haven't a clue what you're referring to I see in and outbound aircraft all the time some from so far out can barely see the sharp NAV or beacon lights.  TBH I don't have any serious annoyances with 2020 or 2024 enough to get me to abandon it for something marginally better, and that's exactly how I see videos, DEMOs, etc in fact other than a few select cloud scenes I don't see ANYTHING even marginally better, even the touted atmospheric lighting.  Night lighting is just too bright in 2024 and that would take all of a few seconds to fix I have to think.  IF XP solved the inherent problems, deeply, with voxel based clouds that could tempt me to take on an entirely new venue with all of the addons, tweaks etc to get it functional.

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

XP, to me, reminds me of flying in P3D. A major step backwards.

Bob, I remember not too long ago you were so passionately defending P3D. Now I'm wondering how long is going to take for you to post FS2020 is a major step backwards. LOL

37 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

There is the major problem with XP12, the initial perception with the demo

I give, why the heck would you provide a cheesy 15 minute exposure if you're nice n proud of your offering?  And in only one location, with default scenery no less?    The very first view was in a setting that really sparked memories from circa 2012 or so.  Within seconds a catering truck ran right thru a tug.  The airport building looked bland city.  I give, is it that they don't really care to sell more copies?  Oh no maybe it's that they want to screen out people who value visuals more than 'flight dynamics'?

Edited June 12, 2025Jun 12 by Noel

Seriously, How long are you guys going to go on about XP12.

Find your own thread. This one is about Staying with 2024, like the title says.

Got nothing to do with 2020 and certainly not XP12

 

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, CarlosF said:

Bob, I remember not too long ago you were so passionately defending P3D. Now I'm wondering how long is going to take for you to post FS2020 is a major step backwards. LOL

Things change, and when a new a better product comes along, you move on. 2024 is not a better product in my opinion, it has issues galore, and a UI that is a word not allowed. 

42 minutes ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

Seriously, How long are you guys going to go on about XP12.

Find your own thread. This one is about Staying with 2024, like the title says.

Got nothing to do with 2020 and certainly not XP12

 

 

 

 

As long as a few a desparately trying to use this thread to promote XP, I have some opinions on XP.

I have tried their free demos, over the years, which are a joke frankly.  Fifteen minutes before it resets and you have to start it again, is ridiculous. What an hour, or a day is going to hurt the developer? I bet that 15-minute tryout turns off more people than any other first impression. 

The other issue, is that there are supposedly so many free add ons available that make it look less  like a 20 year old piece of software, why don't they just incorporate some of  those freebies into the product, so  the buyer doesn't have to fiddle with the software to get it to look halfway decent? 

Edited June 12, 2025Jun 12 by Bobsk8