Folks, how *** hard is it to simply accept the fact we all have a slightly different view (notice the sarcasm), but we all love the very same thing. I find the mud slinging appalling (and yes, I am aware I have been guilty of that in the past).

Therefor a kind reminder: no matter what sim you use on your setup at home, no matter what you do it with (and with whom), no matter how hard you try to pretend to be a pilot in it, no matter how often you do it, no matter how convinced you are it will help your real world flying, no matter what to be honest, you are playing a simulation game.

Who cares if sim X or sim Y is approved to train student pilots? Even if we have purchased a certified sim we still do not use it with the certified hardware (and other conditions) at home.

Therefor a few suggestions: enjoy the sim you use, embrace its merits, live with its flaws, look forward to its updates, be disappointed if it doesn't meet your demands, accept another sim may be better, go outside occasionally, support the developers that matter to you, be respectful to the creators of your sim (seriously folks, why the name calling, these people are doing there jobs, just like you), well, you catch my drift.

Having said all that; MSFS 2024 is the best sim ever 😁 Have a great Sunday!

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by Rimshot

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Neither does your favorite sim for 99.99% of all users who don't pay the money for its certified version let alone the strict hardware requirements to be able to count time towards flying hours.  

Flying a Redbird with whatever software (P3D, FSX, XP) NEVER counts as flying hours.  

It may count as SIMULATED INSTRUMENT time, but they do not go towards your total time of flying.  So if I'm a Commercial Pilot Student, and I have let's say 20 hours of simulated instrument time (whether that's on a Redbird or in a real airplane under the hood) and 175 hours of Total Time flying (in real airplanes) and I go and use a Redbird sim with an instructor (another needed thing for this to be legal), I'll have 22 hours of simulated instrument time, but still only 175 hours of Total Time.  

If anyone is interested in this topic, it might be useful to have a look at

https://airfactsjournal.com/2022/05/simulators-focus-on-saving-time-not-logging-time/

It contains a link to an admittedly small small-size study that demonstrates that simulator use by PPL students significantly cuts the amount of flight time required by students to successfully obtain their license.

I did my flight training in the 1970s and 80s (and, no, my CFI wasn't named Wilbur or Orville). By the time I was training for the Instrument Rating, my flying club had acquired an analog desktop flight simulator that was a mechanical wonder. Computer? We don't need no stinking computers. I don't recall crediting any of the simulator time to the 40 hours required for the rating, but I did successfully complete the FAA checkride having flown the minimum, whereas I didn't take the PPL exam until I had completed about 75 hours. 

BTW, since I have been involved in flight simulation since the late 1970s, I'm going to suggest that I was one of the first on the AVSIM forum to have made use of this technology. Now we can argue about that. 😉

I'm currently doing commercial flight training and MSFS has been unbelievably helpful for practising instrument flying and rehearsing engine failure drills. In terms of handling it doesn't really feel like the real aircraft (been using the COWS DA42), but I can live with that. It really, really annoys me that in 2020 or 2024 they still haven't made the nav aid idents audible 😡 but it has been very, very helpful and has significantly assisted my progress.

On 6/10/2025 at 9:45 PM, LRBS said:

 "what a .... the real airplane doesn't do that".

Lets say you have sitting on the tarmac two 172N airframes with same hours. One has no known squawks and the other one does.  The one that does have squawks causes poor engine performance preventing full RPMs and other issues that has the trim out of wack and causes the pilot to have to use extra rudder and cant full rely on the airspeed gauge.

Which one of these planes fits the description of a real plane when comparing it to a simulated payware plane? My point is that while a simulated plane might not match a physical plane in any or all aspects, its up to the pilot to detect and compensate for any shortcomings. Vspeeds are all targets and checklist are all preformed at certain points of a flight. That doesnt change from sim to real. 

I just saw a current news event where a student pilot crashed and killed the instructor in what seemed like a stall shortly after takeoff. Made me think of how important a sim can be used prior to flight training to learn the fundamentals and make it easier with more confidence for both the student and instructor when in flight.

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

No offense, but I have other more important things to do. 
I have customers to look after and an update to deliver. 
Like I said. Believe me or don’t. 

Without evidence to support your claims, I don't. End of story, I guess.

2 minutes ago, cobalt said:

Without evidence to support your claims, I don't. End of story, I guess.

Excellent.

Can you move on now?

Just now, GoranM said:

Excellent.

Can you move on now?

Yes indeed. The point is made as far as I'm concerned, and I am more than happy to move on.

5 minutes ago, cobalt said:

Yes indeed. The point is made as far as I'm concerned, and I am more than happy to move on.

Hey, as long as you're happy, I am too.  

Have a fantastic rest of your day!

6 hours ago, Rusty Spanner said:

It's not, here in the UK CFI is a Chief Flying Instructor, a plain flying instructor is abbreviated to FI

Although confusingly CFI in the Royal Air Force is certified flying instructor.

In the airline world such people are either referred to as trainers… or when they’re out of earshot….an unsavoury 4 letter word

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by jon b

Never used it at PCF....

 

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by Ed_S_Pilot

Just in case some followers of this thread might find this interesting, I happened to have dinner last night with a private pilot who flew for business and pleasure for decades, owned his own plane, and accumulated 2500 hours in the air, often with his family, before he retired from it a couple of years ago. I mentioned to him that I was into flight simulation and have been for decades, but that except for one occasion I have never flown a real plane. Somewhat to my surprise, he was very interested to hear about flight simming and especially the latest versions of it (MS 2020 and 2024), and peppered me with questions about it. I remarked that obviously FS is fundamentally different from real flight, but he somewhat disagreed with that statement! Today he wrote me. "It's always a treat to meet another pilot. Being a pilot is as much as a state of mind as a formal program with an FAA ticket at the end".  The contrast between his view -- that of an experienced RL flier taking flight simming that seriously -- with some of the opinions expressed earlier in this thread, was striking to me. For what it's worth. 

 

 

One thing for sure - anyone who starts out with Flight Simulator experience before starting with formal flight lessons begins with a significant jump ahead of individuals with no home computer sim experience. The most valuable aspects for myself was precision in the pattern working up to the solo flight. Correct airspeed, altitude, trimming and configuration of the aircraft in the circuit were all second nature with years of flight sim experience. I have continued to spread the word about the value of flight simulation making you a better pilot in videos and most recently in COPA's Flight magazine.

https://imgur.com/oEA3007

https://imgur.com/W95bXc7

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, The Flight Level said:

One thing for sure - anyone who starts out with Flight Simulator experience before starting with formal flight lessons begins with a significant jump ahead of individuals with no home computer sim experience. The most valuable aspects for myself was precision in the pattern working up to the solo flight. Correct airspeed, altitude, trimming and configuration of the aircraft in the circuit were all second nature with years of flight sim experience. I have continued to spread the word about the value of flight simulation making you a better pilot in videos and most recently in COPA's Flight magazine.

https://imgur.com/oEA3007

https://imgur.com/W95bXc7

 

 

 

 

Agree. I believe that a critical determinant of success is the student's mindset.

If you go in thinking "I already know that" and you're trying to impress your instructor with your existing knowledge, you're just likely to cause yourself problems.

If you go in with an openness to learn and a willingness to take AND execute direction, it goes a LOT easier for everyone.

The binary flight sim good / bad attitude is anachronistic.

1 minute ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Agree. I believe that a critical determinant of success is the student's mindset.

If you go in thinking "I already know that" and you're trying to impress your instructor with your existing knowledge, you're just likely to cause yourself problems.

If you go in with an openness to learn and a willingness to take AND execute direction, it goes a LOT easier for everyone.

The binary flight sim good / bad attitude is anachronistic.

Yes, absolutely. I never mentioned that I had flight sim experience at any time during my lessons. Just focus on the lesson at hand and continue to absorb and absorb!