1 hour ago, odourboy said:

100s of man-years of work doesn't come cheap!

Why do Justflight and Fenix provide 2020->2024 upgrades for free?

44 minutes ago, SayAgain said:

Moving on … seems clear to me what the 737 will be based on this post on PMDG forums:

 

 Regarding the old man's statement in the screenshot: Well, then I'll believe that tale too. 🙄

Edited December 16, 2025Dec 16 by MaGer1965

6 hours ago, RNAVV19R said:

$20 isn't reasonable at all when most other devs are doing free upgrades and providing equal or superior products.

If you are going to charge, then something like $5 seems somewhat reasonable.

I agree, and I should have specified , "reasonable by PMDG standards." There seems to be no formal acknowledgement of long time customers, who have spent a small fortune on their products over several years.

Cheers, Pete

48 minutes ago, Konterhalbe said:

Why do Justflight and Fenix provide 2020->2024 upgrades for free?

For some of us Flight Simulation is a hobby / pastime, for others it's a business. For those in the business camp it's up to them how they market and release their products based on the amount of work and effort put in to their products.

 

The PMDG 737 was the only decent aircraft that flew MSFS 2020 on my gaming laptop stutter free (as with their 777).  I've probably got 3,500 hours out of it?  I've also just finished my ATPL exams and am hoping to finish my ME/IR at a Ryanair linked school next year with a view to joining them.  Largely down purely to the PMDG 737 and MSFS 2020.

I'd say I can stomach paying for their MSFS 2024 offering.  

Edited December 16, 2025Dec 16 by Langeveldt

3 hours ago, Konterhalbe said:

Why do Justflight and Fenix provide 2020->2024 upgrades for free?

Moreover, it's not just an upgrade—both companies are providing native 2024 aircraft. Looking at the BAE 146's recent changelog, it's clear that it underwent a massive redevelopment. They’re offering this completely free to existing customers. For developers who truly respect their customers—especially long-time supporters—I’ll definitely choose to buy more of their add-ons.

3 hours ago, SayAgain said:

Moving on … seems clear to me what the 737 will be based on this post on PMDG forums:

I’m interested to see what’s inside, sounds like considerable work effort so I’m looking forward to that.

So based on the feature list post here:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/378570-737-features-part-one-airco-anti-ice-avionics-auto-flight-gear-braked-cabin

I’m sure all of you have access to PMDG forums right? 😉 

Seems like A LOT of work to me.

Just Flight is also overhauling their older aircraft, such as the BAE 146. It seems the new features they’re adding far surpass those of the so-called "2024-native" 737. How can they afford to offer this for free? The BAE 146 isn't just compatible with 2024—it's a completely native version built from the ground up.

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I agree. $20 isn’t reasonable when other developers have given away the upgrades for MSFS 2024 for free.  I’m not looking for new features or an upgraded cabin, etc, for MSFS 2024. I’m just looking for a version that is compatible and won’t crash in MSFS 2024.

I would say $10 is fair.  But if PMDG spent a lot of time and money making this 737 for MSFS 2024, some of us didn’t ask for a fancy new version of the 737, we just wanted a version that was compatible and that’s all we wanted (and Fenix, iFly, and others have provided a compatible version for MSFS 2024 for free).

This is a reasonable take. 

however, we should keep in mind that the entire 777 series did get 2024 compatibility for free. 

and then an anniversary sale for 30-ish percent off across the entire line, even tho the 2024 777s versions had just released  

And I don’t remember a Fenix sale of any sort. Nor the opportunity to buy an A318 for $35.

Just Flight addons are premium priced, with no inexpensive “unpopular” models like the 736 or 77LR, IIRC. And heck, they charge nearly $50 for a single engine Piper!!!

A2A Sims offered a paltry $5 discount for Black Friday, AND they’re going to charge a 30% upgrade fee for the already expensive Comanche v2024!

So, really, it seems to me like PMDG aren’t nearly the Robber Barons we make them out to be.

 

23 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

This is a reasonable take. 

however, we should keep in mind that the entire 777 series did get 2024 compatibility for free. 

and then an anniversary sale for 30-ish percent off across the entire line, even tho the 2024 777s versions had just released  

And I don’t remember a Fenix sale of any sort. Nor the opportunity to buy an A318 for $35.

Just Flight addons are premium priced, with no inexpensive “unpopular” models like the 736 or 77LR, IIRC. And heck, they charge nearly $50 for a single engine Piper!!!

A2A Sims offered a paltry $5 discount for Black Friday, AND they’re going to charge a 30% upgrade fee for the already expensive Comanche v2024!

So, really, it seems to me like PMDG aren’t nearly the Robber Barons we make them out to be.

 

First of all, Just Flight aircraft models are far cheaper than PMDG’s. You get all variants in a single purchase. How much does the full BAE 146 package from Just Flight cost? And how much does the full PMDG 777 package cost? There’s a several-fold price difference.

Also, Fenix is much cheaper than PMDG. How much does it cost to buy the complete A320 CEO lineup from Fenix? If Fenix didn’t exist, PMDG would probably still be selling each aircraft for around $150.

A2A charged for their MSFS 2024-native version, but they also made their MSFS 2020 version compatible with 2024. Has PMDG ever done anything like that? No—PMDG forces players who want to use their aircraft in MSFS 2024 to pay again.

Let’s see how many cups of coffee PMDG’s several-fold markup actually costs.

31 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

Moreover, it's not just an upgrade—both companies are providing native 2024 aircraft. Looking at the BAE 146's recent changelog, it's clear that it underwent a massive redevelopment. They’re offering this completely free to existing customers. For developers who truly respect their customers—especially long-time supporters—I’ll definitely choose to buy more of their add-ons.

I can support this perspective. 

BUT as someone who has “supported developers” to a place where I have more aircraft than I could ever hope to fly proficiently, I also don’t mind the idea of paying to keep just a few personally important HiFi addons up to date. 

e.g., I was SO close to buying the RJ when it was highly discounted 2 weeks ago, esp including my 146 loyalty discount. 

but I ultimately didn’t as I know I won’t fly it even tho it’s a very cool next gen 146. 

same with the Fokker. No interest, so no money. 

Heck, I learned to fly IRL in a Piper Warrior, but I prefer the Turbo Arrow and am not in the least inclined to “support” JF with another Piper purchase. 

And AFAIK, there’s nothing in their pipeline that interests me enough to “support” them any further. 

No, what I’m motivated to do are things like deepening my relationship with A2A’s ultra Hi Fi Comanche. And the $15 upgrade fee (even if it is 30% of MSRP) is quite a reasonable price to ensure that aircraft carries on for me, with enhancements for the new features of v2024. 

47 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

First of all, Just Flight aircraft models are far cheaper than PMDG’s. You get all variants in a single purchase. How much does the full BAE 146 package from Just Flight cost? And how much does the full PMDG 777 package cost? There’s a several-fold price difference.

Can I buy an RJ85 for $35...? Or a 146-200QT for $50...? Or the F28 3000 & 4000 for $50...? No. Nope. And Nada. $70 for any of them.

 

47 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

Also, Fenix is much cheaper than PMDG. How much does it cost to buy the complete A320 CEO lineup from Fenix? If Fenix didn’t exist, PMDG would probably still be selling each aircraft for around $150.

The Fenix A320 is the same price as PMDG's 738 or 737

Does the Fenix include the ACJ? Nope. But the 738 includes the BBJ.

Does the Fenix include a freighter? No. But the 738 includes not one, but TWO.

Can I buy the Fenx 321 for $50? Nah - that'll cost you $120!! But the 739ER is $50.

Can I buy the Fenix A318 for $35? Nope - not even available. AND the 319 will ALSO set you back $120!! The 736? A literally industry unequalled $35.

And as above, does Fenix run sales...? Nope. Gotta pay full freight every day. Kinda takes the shine off all those "free" updates, don't it? 😂

 

47 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

A2A charged for their MSFS 2024-native version, but they also made their MSFS 2020 version compatible with 2024.

A2A didn't "make" their 2020 version 2024 compatible - it was literally copy/paste compatible from day one because they run the entire aircraft isolated from the sim. They did the same thing in Prepar3D - never needed even an update for any of their addons across 3 different versions of P3D.

47 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

Has PMDG ever done anything like that? No—PMDG forces players who want to use their aircraft in MSFS 2024 to pay again.

Do you really not remember that all the 777's were made compatible for 2024 at exactly $0...?

 

So, yes, please do continue to (attempt and fail) to enlighten us on which developer has a more consumer friendly pricing strategy. 😂

 

Oh, and p.s.: PMDG is SO greedy that they gave away a free copy of the MSFS 737 to anyone who bought the NGXu for P3D. Did Just Flight do the same, or anything like it? Nope. Fenix? Still wet behind the ears, so no data. Leonardo? Nope. MilViz/Blackbird? Not a chance.

 

Edited December 17, 2025Dec 17 by UrgentSiesta

5 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Can I buy an RJ85 for $35...? Or a 146-200QT for $50...? Or the F28 3000 & 4000 for $50...? No. Nope. And Nada. $70 for any of them.

 

The Fenix A320 is the same price as PMDG's 738 or 737

Does the Fenix include the ACJ? Nope. But the 738 includes the BBJ.

Does the Fenix include a freighter? No. But the 738 includes not one, but TWO.

Can I buy the Fenx 321 for $50? Nah - that'll cost you $120!! But the 739ER is $50.

Can I buy the Fenix A318 for $35? Nope - not even available. AND the 319 will ALSO set you back $120!! The 736? A literally industry unequalled $35.

And as above, does Fenix run sales...? Nope. Gotta pay full freight every day. Kinda takes the shine off all those "free" updates, don't it? 😂

 

A2A didn't "make" their 2020 version 2024 compatible - it was literally copy/paste compatible from day one because they run the entire aircraft isolated from the sim. They did the same thing in Prepar3D - never needed even an update for any of their addons across 3 different versions of P3D.

Do you really not remember that all the 777's were made compatible for 2024 at exactly $0...?

 

So, yes, please do continue to (attempt and fail) to enlighten us on which developer has a more consumer friendly pricing strategy. 😂

 

Oh, and p.s.: PMDG is SO greedy that they gave away a free copy of the MSFS 737 to anyone who bought the NGXu for P3D. Did Just Flight do the same, or anything like it? Nope. Fenix? Still wet behind the ears, so no data. Leonardo? Nope. MilViz/Blackbird? Not a chance.

 

Seeing this long-winded justification, I suddenly understand why PMDG treats its users so arrogantly. That's just great. So why don't other developers have so many controversies? What’s the real reason?
By the way, no need to reply—let’s leave it at that.

2 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

Seeing this long-winded justification, I suddenly understand why PMDG treats its users so arrogantly. That's just great. So why don't other developers have so many controversies? What’s the real reason?
By the way, no need to reply—let’s leave it at that.

So, you want to leave it that you make sweeping, incorrect generalizations that aren't supported by facts, comparative analysis or even basic math...? 

Okay by me! 😁👍

22 hours ago, MaGer1965 said:

It's already reached catastrophic proportions – you only have to look in other corners of the internet.

What's happening right now can only be explained by the producers' boundless overconfidence.

To put it cautiously (and so far based only on rumors, which are, however, becoming increasingly credible): If it turns out in the coming weeks that OC3 is more or less scanning all hard drives of PMDG's customers, then that would be a clear violation not only of EU data protection laws.

It looks like exciting times are ahead (at least) for IT lawyers.

That would be worse than FSL issue back I the day.

9 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Yep!

All the folks here up in arms over a few dollars extra for an addon. 

also the same folks who complained bitterly over having to pay for MSFS 2024. Yet here they are. 

also the same folks who only seem to attach value to tangible items like computer hardware. 

Do I appreciate the heck out of Just Flight for all the free updates? Yep. 

At the same time, they never finished my Tornado for P3D and haven’t issued a single update yet. 

my Hawk T1 & Vulcan for X-Plane don’t work in v12 and I don’t even have the option to pay for an upgrade!

and did they ever offer me a loyalty discount for my cross-simulator purchases…? Nope. 

And they don’t have to, because it’s not the free/discounted updates that cause me to spend money with them, it’s the quality of the products they make. 

same with PMDG. 

and I’ll add that Fenix should’ve charged at least a nominal fee for v2024, because sooner or later they’re gonna need the cash, and training your customers to expect Free Work Forever is a bad precedent to set for corporate longevity.

You don’t get it. It’s the principle of the fact that RSR said on numerous occasions that the upgrade for MS2020 owners would’ve a “small fee”, “a couple cups of coffee”. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to do trying to spread PMDG justification falls on deaf ears due to their own CEO’s words. People expect him to stand by it. 

Edited December 17, 2025Dec 17 by B777ER