1 hour ago, 0stones0 said:

Potential new customers...

In case you haven't seen it, BATC replied to this assumption (that I did as well) on the other AVSIM multi-pages discussion: 

 

I use BATC at least twice everyday, I have used it since release and watched it grow and mature. "Beyond ATC is just not there yet"; Yes that's stated clearly on their website and in the application, as Vincent mentioned above, they have a roadmap and are following it explicitly. I very rarely get a problem except with airports such as Paro, 99% of the time ATC instructions are perfect and with the addition of "Local Voices" I don't have to spend any money because they are not only free but almost on par with Premium Characters. I have never had or have been given the impression that the devs are "out to make money". And with excellent support and very regular updates (in experimental) I am extreamly happy with not only the current state of BATC, but also it's future. So I would like to publicly thank the Dev's for their dedication, generosity and hard work in bringing us flight simmers IMHO one of the best (and getting better) add on's for MSFS EVER!

I love it much better than default. This seems like the usual BATC bashing post which crop up quite often on here.

Edited April 11Apr 11 by bhx22

Quite honestly my flights feel empty without BATC despite its shortcomings. It's much better than it was at first (and even then I enjoyed it). 

I only wish they'd put in some rudimentary support for X-Plane. Even without other traffic, I'd pay again in a heartbeat.

I just hate it when it forces me to start descent when I'm around 20 to 30NM from the TOD point...I can't fly without it though, way better than default ATC.

6 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

if it can't vector correctly, I don't even see the point.  That's basically its only job.

It can vector correctly.

You've said yourself that you haven't used it recently, so you're concluding that it just "can't vector" on the basis of a report from a user that constantly posts here, criticising addons, where it ends up being objective user error.

Can it always vector perfectly in every scenario? Of course not. It's not human. But in most common flight scenarios, it vectors me (and others) successfully onto a final approach.  It does this for me daily, which is why I'm passionate about these misleading posts that announce "BATC cannot vector".

If you own it, why not try it again? There have likely been a good few updates since your last try out.

8 hours ago, 0stones0 said:

Potential new customers...

Why would new customers buy an add-on that is still in early development? It's not even available for current customers. I have to pay to test how the vfrs is coming along. No, thank you.

12 hours ago, CFIJose said:

why move on to introduce VFR when IFR still needs to be improved and fixed?

It makes zero sense to me.

BATC seems to be a small group, but it's not solo dev, as far as I can tell from their videos. The VFR programmer and IFR programmer can work at the same time, semi-independently.

Edited April 11Apr 11 by Magenta Line

8 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

 

I have also seen BATC just completely break, in which case I just self-vector to final, but if that's really what the program "expects" you to do, then it's simply broken, is all.  I haven't used it in a while for this reason; if it can't vector correctly, I don't even see the point.  That's basically its only job.

This absolutely.  This is where BATC fails badly.  It's quite apparent to me that most simmers don't know exactly what to expect in this phase of flight.  This should be the shining moment of BATC: it should get you to your destination airport correctly.  

I'm not on the experimental but BATC either forgets about me and goes radio silent, it descends me waaaay to low (like 500 ft agl for an ils intercept lol), or it gives me a 90 degree intercept inside the final approach fix.  And then if flying to an uncontrolled airport it's like "well no services have a nice day." Lol.  They couldn't have possibly added a way to "cancel ifr" on the ground or something?  It's so odd.

We had default ATC that could vector better in fsx.... 20 years ago!  Granted fsx also wasn't terrain aware...it would put you into a mountain just like BATC will (or into the ground too early lol).

About once a month I update BATC and hope to see some improvement.  It's just funny to see praise for this product.  It tells me how much people do not know about ATC.

34 minutes ago, CFIJose said:

Why would new customers buy an add-on that is still in early development? It's not even available for current customers. I have to pay to test how the vfrs is coming along. No, thank you.

Then wait? Given your feedback, you should have even waited for the official release, without purchasing an early access software.

I believe I personally responded to all your questions, but I don’t feel like you are willing to accept the answer. At this point there’s nothing much left I can do.

14 hours ago, Farlis said:

I doubt that. If it gives you the OCK transition then it does not vector you. It expects you to fly the transition as published and will then tell you to contact tower on final.

Couple of caveats here before I go further.  I'm a US pilot IRL and in the sim, so I'm not familiar with procedures in the UK.  And, the way the OP describes this there's some ambiguity so perhaps I don't understand what he's describing.  That said...

Looking at the relevant STAR and the ILS approach to 9L, sure looks to me as though you NEED vectors at or before OCK.  The STARs I see into London are typical of those in busy terminal areas everywhere, where arrivals take you to a certain point at which (or really in most cases before which) you WILL get vectored to the final approach course of whatever procedure is being used.  They're RADAR required.

If that's the case, the OP is entirely correct in expecting to get vectored at or before OCK.  He may have been cleared to fly the STAR, which he obviously should follow, absent other instructions from the controller, but if no vector was received at or prior to OCK, the STAR he was cleared for is done, and vectors are absolutely expected and required to get him to the final approach course.

 

Scott

Edited April 11Apr 11 by tttocs
typo

I enjoy using Beyond ATC.  I find it great from pushback to the vectoring to the approach.  At this point, I just ignore the instructions and follow the STAR and use common sense to get to the approach to the runway. 

Also, I use the TOD as shown in LittleNavMap as the marker to start descending as I find that the descent rate is normally 1,800-2,000 fpm which I find keeps the aircraft speed OK without the excessive use of the speed brakes.

6 minutes ago, tttocs said:

the STAR he was cleared for is done, and vectors are absolutely expected and required to get him to the final approach course

But it sounds as if he was cleared via the OCK transition which follows the STAR, certainly my approaches from various directions have been as such.

5 hours ago, JYW said:

It can vector correctly.

You've said yourself that you haven't used it recently, so you're concluding that it just "can't vector" on the basis of a report from a user that constantly posts here, criticising addons, where it ends up being objective user error.

Can it always vector perfectly in every scenario? Of course not. It's not human. But in most common flight scenarios, it vectors me (and others) successfully onto a final approach.  It does this for me daily, which is why I'm passionate about these misleading posts that announce "BATC cannot vector".

If you own it, why not try it again? There have likely been a good few updates since your last try out.

Yes, I'll try it again at some point. But it hasn't been THAT long since I last tried it, and in my experiments it still has not vectored me correctly, not even once.  This spans airline flying into hub airports and GA IFR flying into a variety of fields.  It's never once done things "correctly", there's always a time when I have to just shut it off.  It's descended me into mountains.  Given me 90 degree intercepts.  Dropped me on downwind while on vectors and then shipped me to tower.  Never even once has it given me vectors that are even close to a real world standard of "acceptable".  Based on the latest reports, it's still not fixed so every time I think about trying it, I opt for Vatsim instead even if not fully staffed. 

One day, though.  At this point it's kind of a game to see what it'll do next.

Edited April 11Apr 11 by Stearmandriver

Wild ride into Vagar with BATC 🫣🤪