FlyBaby

Yeah..I did not want to fall into that trap. I have switched over to Helos in both XP (412 and 429) and DCS (Huey); and Train Sim 2 while these MSFS issues are going on. Also monitoring forums for announcements / proven workarounds. The stutters and Tree LODs have really taken the sim a step back. I am sure that Asobo will get things better, but in the meantime, there are other sims to use.

Complaints are warranted as the last update took a serious step back with performance. Your suggestion of no vsync and frames @60 is not a one size fits all. This introduces screen tearing when panning with TIR. Yes MSFS is a great sim, and complaints / constructive feedback can make it better. If it is buttery smooth for you, congrats. However, some of us are trying to get back to that happy place. I had great performance since launch and prior to SU3.

Perhaps WT / Asobo can launch a dedicated section or category on the MSFS site for feedback.

Exactly...wish I could roll back the update. I didn't get the Garmin improvements I was hoping for (but at least the WT announcement shows they are on it); and got LOD and stutters that I didn't want. Hopefully Asobo can sort these issues out...

Yeah, I came to this conclusion last night. Going back to another civil sim puts me in the same place bcuz I still won't get the visual VFR experience I am used to with MSFS pre SU3. May just wait this issue out over the next month or so doing some combat flying in DCS or switch to Train Sim World 2. Me too, big fan of MSFS. I hope they are researching (on it) and the silence is just due to the fact they have't come up with an answer to give. But they really dropped the ball with taking away somwthing that made the sim great. I agree...hopefully they are getting the msg. They seem genuinely concerned about feedback and resolving issue with their consumer driven decision model. But this LOD issue has been on table from the start...

I was also surprised that there were hardly any comments during the live stream concerning this issue. I am not sure if Asobo really knows that many users have the issue.

While specifics are still being ironed out, I wanted to start a suggestion thread so that WT has more info on what the community would like to see in the future… My input… I have always like XPs Garmin system approach with some depth that 3PD Devs could leverage / tap into. I like their “interactive” 2D popup (without a windows top border) that I could both resize and position (saved by plane) for easier reading / adjusting etc. 3D cockpits are nice, but having 2D popup helps me see the PFD / MFD easier and still keep an eye on what’s going on outside without having to change views. I also liked the fact that I could bind keys to those hard to adjust knobs / selectors to make life a little easier. So in general, I think that XP has a good user friendly implementation of their systems, hopefully we can see something similar or better for MSFS.

Don't do it folks...move along.

Thanks. My original understanding was that Asobo was looking to create baseline Garmin systems that other 3PD Devs could tap into (to keep 3PDevs from creating their own) much like x-planes G1000 etc. Asobo stated how this was arequest from Devs as well as the community looking for in depth systems. I am wondering how this partnership achieves that end, or if 3PDevs may still have to create their systems.

Hi, I imagine that things will become much clearer in the future / relationship to MSFS etc. But I am mainly looking to know what "Garmin" products you will officially bring to the to the MSFS platform (not a mod) through this partnership. Is it just the G1000 and G3000, or all other units like the G3X? I did not get a clear sense of this from the FAQ.

Does this include the G3X?

Is there a similar link for the G3X?

Well, you were the one who said that MSFS isn't "worth it". Seems like you got what you were expecting... https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/596831-is-this-sim-worth-it-yet/?do=findComment&comment=4489923

Exactly....It amazes me when seeing how many people take the bait for these type of threads.

I appreciate that some will buy these planes and give a review for the benefit of others. Outside of that, I cannot understand how anyone would continue to buy from Carenado...they have consistently shown that they are "all beauty and no brains" across multiple sim platforms. After 2 of their horrible planes, I won't ever purchase another product from them unless they got into building airports / scenery (like Orbx) for the "pretty" visuals.

Wow, I thought it was just me....having a hard time spotting airports. 1) Using the tree distance mod...with the smaller tree fix did help with spotting airports surrounded by the MSFS "forest." 2) i fly with the G3x now, so the GPS/map gives me a nice "cheat" display.

I have never experienced the "snap center" view on pause with any simulator (P3D, XP, DCS etc.). Originally, MSFS would "snap center" on pause after a few seconds. I am glad that they got rid of this action. When I hit pause, i want it to pause....right there. I have three TIR button assignments on my HOTAS (1 for pause, 2 for center, and 3 for center, then pause with macro strokes). So we can all have the various outcomes without forcing a "center view" when someone just wants to simply pause and look at instruments.

Hi, what settings did you change to get rid of the blurred / out of focus scenery? I have the same issue recently...not just with trackir, chase view panning with control stick, and sudden movement in the cockpit produce the same loss of focus / fuzzy blurred ground trees etc.

The niche in a niche will only go but so far. Some of the challenges that I see with the future of X-plane are their ability and willingness to adapt, their small / shrinking user base, 3PDevs migrating away, and how these factors ultimately impact their resources / development for X-plane. As I touched on earlier in this thread, Devs for robust sims are taking a different approach (engagement / partnership / regular updates & patches) to ensure the longevity of their respective sims (DTGames, DCS world, MSFS). These Devs have invested heavily in 3 areas to remain profitable and to ensure frequent development & interest… 1) Feature Rich / Eye-Candy / Performance in the “base” product (no one is buying clouds for TSW2, DCS, or MSFS) 2) Engagement / Partnering & Communication (live streams / feedback / frequent updates & improvements / forums / Roadmap) 3) Residual Revenue (addons / store) to help fund continued development How well does LR rank in the above areas for their desktop app? With regard to #3, I think that the Org has a lock on the store / revenue aspect. Considering the above, it is not just as simple as saying sim Y is better than Sim X, so sim X is doomed. Folk are still flying FSX and FS2004….but the development is no longer there. And it is not just about what new features XP12 promises to deliver. Beyond the challenges listed above, LR has additional hurdles to overcome (resources / continued funding etc.) because they lack the infrastructure (such as #2 and #3 above) to provide frequent updates / enhancements / fixes (beyond the original sale) at a pace that consumers are experiencing with other Devs. · How will LR ensure / fund “continued” development (much like the 3 Devs above) beyond the initial $60 - $100 sale price for XP12? · How many people will plunk down the initial $$$ without any roadmap or “expressed” commitment from LR regarding continued development (check the “pace” of updates for each of the Devs above)? · How many “niche in a niche” folk will stick with XP11 (and not upgrade because they really are not about “all that” eye-candy that XP12 may bring)? Every DEV mentioned above is working on at least a half dozen new features / enhancements / improvements / fixes…and their users know what those initiatives are and have a pretty good idea when things are expected to be released (even if they miss a deadline). This is the future of “robust” sim development and longevity.

Your comments demonstrate the challenge with the future of XP. Engagement & also Partnering. The competitive landscape has shifted drastically over the last 1-2 years. I recently realized that P3D tapped TrueSky (learning from FSW). Flight Sims cover many areas, and engaging / partnering with Devs who can bring their expertise to the table seems to be the direction going forward. Engaging not only the community, but 3PDevs “during” development help to ensure investment / interest / anticipation (both community and 3P Devs) going forward. If you look at Train Sim World 2, DTG has a roadmap & a regularly updated news feed to keep consumers engaged with what’s new / upcoming / being fixed etc…releasing enough information to let folk “know”, “look forward to” with regard to the future. I don’t think that XP’s Dev blog hits this mark, nor does the “wait for the MSFS hype train die down” explain away the silence that has always been there with LR. I think that DTG’s engagement helped to sell TSW2 given that many (including myself) felt like DTG had not really delivered on TSW1. TSW2 was sure to have beta of their RailDriver functionality prior to Holidays to deliver on their promise in the roadmap; and had seemingly developed a better relationship with RD to fully integrate the functionality of the hardware. LR has always been an island unto itself rarely communicating / acknowledging / responding. To me, flight sims are now leaning more towards the “it takes a village” phenomena encompassing the core sim, freeware, 3PDevs, and consumer engagement (feedback / updates etc.). Live Youtube sessions (TSW2) and twitch interviews (MSFS) answering questions / giving feedback are playing a large role in engaging with the community, and helping the Devs strike a balance (what can we do now vs later / what can others do / what can’t be done). XP will always have the diehard fanbase, but 1) many consumers want modern graphics / eye candy, 2) 3P Devs may not continue to split their resources across multiple sims when considering the relative consumer base / potential sales, and 3) community engagement is playing a larger role these days. Beyond any "new" features that LR may announce… Will LR improve upon its engagement with 3PDevs / Community going forward? Will LR have a roadmap that goes beyond the initial release of XP12? Will LR partner with other Devs to expand upon features beyond what LR has the capacity to do themselves? …Or will LR continue to be a small & isolated team “mainly” appealing to the diehard fanbase (smaller & shrinking)? If so, I don’t see how there is enough of a consumer base (and continued 3P Dev investment) to fund / warrant any substantial progress.

This is a tough call. Although I knew of the slow development etc when I first purchased it, the Dev is really struggling to keep up. I admire the tenacity, but the wait time is in the "years" time frame for XE to fully deliver. With that said, I just realized that 1.15 (and now 1.16) is Vulkan compatible. However, I have always had to turn it off (after an update) either due to performance issues or some odd visual bug that killed the immersion. I will load 1.16 to see if XE is something that can finally play nice for the long haul. So...if you buy it...just know that development is very slow. Perhaps it is at a more stable place now, but I had written it off (lesson learned) almost a year ago. The recent pagefile size fix (over at the org) did seem to eliminate the panning stutters for me in a short test run. Did this work for you?

This is all I want. I am currently locked at 30fps / 30hz with MSFS Vsync set to 60, but running 1080p with a GTX 1080. Very smooth GA flying. I just want a card (Nvidia or AMD) that can give the same performance at 4k. But everything is sold out.

I have always experienced mini stutters with rolling / manual cache.So I turned those options off / deleted local storage. I get smooth performance with streaming data...however, once in a while, I will get the long freezes usually about 5 or 10 seconds after a session starts.

Well put... But let's be clear, its not just me experiencing the issues and there are several folk on the org site experiencing the same issue as well. There is nothing misleading or false about "stutters" that have plagued every sim platform. However, when folk try to minimalize issue that people have...particularly the same issue that Vulkan was suppose to address....it gives a false and misleading impression that the issue has been fixed. So, maybe you don't have the issue, but others apparently do. So we are back to hypocrisy that I mentioned earlier.

Take a deep breath buddy, its just an outdated sim...there is a difference between an enthusiast and someone who just can't face the facts. How you and @Murmur try to police the X-plane forum is both hilarious and waste of "your" time.