Awhile back we were all discussing what would happen if a simmer found him/her self in a situation where they needed to land a heavy with no practical flight experience other then Flight Simulator. I don’t fly heavies that often, (I can though), although I find myself doing a lot of bush flying and the like. So I was wondering, I think I could easily fly a single or twin engine GA aircraft in almost every flying condition, (except for the worst ones), navigate and land the mini-beast with no issues whatsoever. Even yawing into the wind…Am I delusional or what? Mark

I wouldn't trot out to a plane and take off just yet. The real world feel and actual weather effects are a lot less controlled than on FS9. I have yet to feel a simulated aircraft that really was all that comparable to the real thing. I've had a Mooney turned over to me and I guarantee you its a lot different than FS9. What you do have is a familiarity with how a craft might perform and a good working knowledge of guages and procedures. That's a lot considering a relatively small investment. That's my take.

I am training for my PPL and I can say that surely simming has helped considerably with learning procedures and book-knowledge type stuff(navigation, practicing what to do in an emergency etc..). But in a real plane there are other types of feedback(physical), not to mention at low landing speeds you bounce around alot. When you actually see the runway coming up your heart is going a mile a minute(at first anyway) and forget about a wing-low, sideslip crosswind landing. During my first solo I literally lost a pound of sweat.Simming is complemetary, but doesn't replace the real thing. Take a discovery flight at a local flight school(about 50 bucks in the US) and see for yourself, GA flying is loads of fun and will make your simming seem more relevant.

I'm willing to bet you could do it for sure, but I'm also willing to bet that it would not be a very graceful flight. Most people can probably remember the first time they took a car out on a busy road in the rush hour, or out on an an autobahn at 100 mph or whatever, and can probably also remember how shockingly fast things seemed to be happening in comparison to when they were practicing going around in circles on a quiet estate on a Sunday with no other traffic around. I suspect you might experience the same feelings if you found yourself in a Cessna whizzing along the runway toward take off for a circuit.Needless to say, Cessnas and the like are designed to be forgiving, and providing you stay within the AoA and speed constraints for safe flight, it would be unlikely that you'd get into real trouble. But knowing exactly how much rudder to feed in, when to do it, how much to back it off when into the turn (which varies with different speeds and throttle settings) is not something that comes naturally to most people and takes time to refine. To give you an example, I was a fairly fast learner on aeroplanes and got sent solo after just over seven hours dual, but at that point I was still not a very sophisticated flyer, and did the things all fledgling pilots do, such as gripping the stick like crazy, overcooking the rudder and such, and coming in for a landing a bit long, forcing me to sideslip it down. I knew all of that was not how I should be doing it, and (being kind) my instructor said I did well, but doing well for a first go, and really doing well are two entirely different things, and it was a long time after that first solo before I regarded myself as a competent flyer.Next time you fancy buying a pricey FS add-on, instead phone up your local flying club and arrange a trial lesson, and you can see how well you would do. You'll probably do great, but keep in mind that having an instructor alongside you is a huge help psychologically.Al

There are lots of things in the real world, that I don't have too worry much about in the sim.For instance, I have a castoring nosewheel with differential brakes for low speed steering. And this nosewheel setup isn't as strong as a Cessna 172's; but then you can easily destroy those too.So for taxiing, I keep full back pressure on the stick to take weight off the nosewheel. Then as I add throttle for the takeoff roll, I gradually release back pressure on the stick to keep the nose at the correct attitude. This correct attitude is a "mental picture" that's embedded in my memory. And it gets memorized from doing it over and over. Student pilots do the same. They get a mental picture from doing landings over and over.For my landings I have two options. Come down steep and flare at the precise moment, or carry some power into the landing. My plane is higher performancethan a 172, and will fall through the flare onto the runway (stall) if you're not watching it closely. It has a constant speed prop, and air airspeeds slow real fast, as the constant speed prop acts like a big air brake. I had better be just above the runway at the right time, or I'll run low on airspeed, and damage something. Sims don't portray this very well.So now I'm watching my airspeed precisely, have got a mental picture of what landings should look like (attitude wise); because I've done them over and over...........and then I have to deal with any irregularities in the wind. The wing might all of the sudden drop, or the nose will quickly yaw to the right or left. It's now a matter of watching this all at the same time, and making what are near unconscious corrections instantaneously. I also may be talking to the tower or other planes at the same time too. It's really a case of walking and chewing gum at the same time, with numerous other items thrown in. Sims really don't prepare you for it.L.Adamson

The biggest sensation lost in the sim is being nervous for your life. I know it sounds silly, but 4 years ago when I starter on the PPL, I was scared. If the instructor had not been there, I would have only managed everything up to landing. I would say an ADVANCED simmer could definitely fly an aircraft, especially if they have a proper set up (rudder pedals). I think the problem would be landing, of course. There's a reason it takes on average of 10-25 hours to solo (sometimes more for a few of my friends). That sensation of peril is lost and those first 30 landings or so are hairy. I think a simmer would at least break the plane unless lucky.

I started simming about five years ago, and yesterday I had my first real lesson in a 172M. Some thoughts:1) The experience on the whole seemed very familiar and comfortable thanks to FS9. It really helps knowing where all the gauges and switches are and what they do, and my instructor noted this familiarity was a pleasant surprise to him.2) I didn't have a clue what I was doing when it came to some very simple simple stuff, like opening the window and moving the seat forward. I spent two sweaty minutes just trying to adjust my seatbelt.3) I think CH pedals come a lot closer to the real thing than a lot of people give them credit for.4) Light planes sure do move around a lot in flight. FS9 didn't prepare me for that. Active Sky kind of hints at the gentle rocks and rolls you feel in flight, but usually only when you're right under a cloud. I think FSX comes much closer in this department.5) The whole time I was up, in the back of my head I kept thinking: what best represents what I'm experiencing right now better--FSX with Tileproxy, or FS9 with Flight Ontario scenery? Somewhat surprisingly, I have to give it to FS9. The autogen and custom buildings of my FS9 scenery had a truer feel than the flat, though precise, Tileproxy tiles, at least at 3,000 feet.6) We've been up here an hour? I swear it's only been five minutes.7) Runways aren't nearly as easy to find from the air as they are in FS9. Like those Magic Eye posters, you can stare right at them all day and still not see them.8) To the original question, maybe I could land a plane on my own, but I'm not keen to try--at least not yet.

For my landings I have two options. Come down steep and flare at the precise moment, or carry some power into the landing. My plane is higher performancethan a 172, and will fall through the flare onto the runway (stall) if you're not watching it closely. It has a constant speed prop, and air airspeeds slow real fast, as the constant speed prop acts like a big air brake. I had better be just above the runway at the right time, or I'll run low on airspeed, and damage something. Sims don't portray this very well.

I'm with you...maybe a little more extreme than you in thinking that FS really doesn't portray landings that well. You CAN land a GA plane correctly in FS, but it usually doesn't really work out right. At least to me. I think it's a combination of no peripheral vision, no feedback and no ground effect. To the OP, I think you'd probably break the gear if you flew, unsupervised, in real life. I think that most strictly simmer's would, judging by the youtube video's I've seen, haha.LAdamson, can your Vans be switched between conventional and tricycle gear? How long did it take you to build? I've only heard great things about them. As an owner, how's the size? Would two 6ft guys be brushing elbows constantly?

I had a chance to "fly" a Piper Sundowner years ago and was amazed at how much it really moved around in the air, and how difficult it was to keep the dash level with the horizon. stilll, I have always enjoyed that 10 minutes. Maybe one day, I will take up flying for real and get my license. Flying as air crew (helicopters) was fun, but never got any stick time.

-------I would say an ADVANCED simmer could definitely fly an aircraft, especially if they have a proper set up (rudder pedals). -------

-----------------------------Zach- Nine years ago I had the good fortune to win a draw for a set of PFC Cirrus Rudder pedals. At that time I thought I was a reasononably accomplished simmer with CH pedals.The PFC pedals quite changed the dynamics of flight control. There is a very subtle toe input that is hard to describe- probably as significant, perhaps more so, than yoke inputs.And after 15 years of simming I still would be nervous as heck, if on real final, the instructor suddenly said "your airplane"!Alex Reid

If your life depended on it....maybe.I had a couple of glider flights recently that served as my first stick-and-rudder time. It was a vastly different experience, and it was the first time I ever felt that if I screw up I could easily kill myself. I was shockingly bad at maintaining stabile flight behind the tow plane!I've been a pretty active simmer for the past 10 years, and I was surprised it wasn't easier :)

Does a sim help you along in the learning process of flying? YesCould you "take over" in a "situation" with only sim experience and land? MaybeThe fatal flaw to the logic is the lack of "pucker factor" that cannot be replicated in a sim.

Can anyone give us the link to that post run here awhile back, where a flight simmer (from Norway or Denmark?) told of his experience in a B737 full-size simulator? He apparently surprised the instructor\senior pilot with him by making a decent showing...However, all pilots know that feeling lying in the back of their minds when they assume control of a real plane--your decisions from now on could kill somebody...lee

I'm also one of those that started real world flying after flightsimming. Real-world flying is very different than the sim. I think FS captures about 20-30% of the over-all experience. It does a good job of simulating the numbers, but that's about it. Even a simple task such as taxiing is completely different in the real world. And stuff like weather is barely felt in FS unless the wind is crazy. You feel EVERYTHING in the RL (just like how you can feel your car run over even a small rock), and this is something FS can't capture at all (force feedback is a start, but it ain't even close to the real deal). And how about a high-speed/high-angle turn...the blood rushing to your head while trying to keep the instruments aligned is a weird feeling.anyways, back to the original question. I think the answer is a 50/50 because it depends on too many factors. I think they can if:- the runway is directly in front of the pilot at about 5nm out and the pilot has it in view (otherwise they might never see it until it's too late; spotting a runway in a busy city such as Los Angeles is sometimes really hard)- the runway is very wide and long- runway is at sea-level altitude- no high obstacles to clear on final (power lines, trees, high fences, etc.) - vis is unlimited- no clouds between plane and runway (going through clouds will completely disorient the first time flier imo). - wind is calm- temperature is normal. No extreme hot or cold conditions. Thus no need to worry about carb or pitot heat- day time with the sun behind the plane- the plane is forgiving, such as a 172 with very low stall speeds and a fast responding engine- the plane has fixed landing gears, and not a taildragger- no other traffic in the pattern- don't need to worry about the radios (sim pilots might not even know how to speak over the radio...meaning, holding down the button/trigger on the yoke...again, not simulated in FS) - plane is not too heavy or light- nicely maintained/oiled/correct tension cable plane w/ easy to move yoke/mixer/prop controls (i think most first time fliers will be surprised by the force needed to move the yoke...especially if they don't know how to use and "feel" the trim wheel to release pressure)if the above is met, the sim pilot can probably land it...but it ain't gonna be pretty...probably come in waaay too fast and bounce it a few times...but hey, a good landing is one that you can walk away from right?-feng

Nope, that's an adequate landing, a good landing is one you can walk away from and after you have done so, the aircraft can still be used :( Al