Hi all, After years of being frustated by the quirks of FS ATC and AI (endless go-arounds, unrealistic AI behavior, etc, etc), I decided to go "solo". Being the only kid in town allows me to really enjoy the sim in a much better way, lol. However, after being accustomed to having the airports filled with AI, I must say that it's starting to get a bit lonely. I refuse, though, to put the AI back on (for fear of losing the love that I'm rediscovering for the sim). Are there any plans by anyone to develop a program that will really manage the AI and ATC more realistically? That's my one big kid wish for Christmas :)J.C. (MYNN)

Hi all, After years of being frustated by the quirks of FS ATC and AI (endless go-arounds, unrealistic AI behavior, etc, etc), I decided to go "solo". Being the only kid in town allows me to really enjoy the sim in a much better way, lol. However, after being accustomed to having the airports filled with AI, I must say that it's starting to get a bit lonely. I refuse, though, to put the AI back on (for fear of losing the love that I'm rediscovering for the sim). Are there any plans by anyone to develop a program that will really manage the AI and ATC more realistically? That's my one big kid wish for Christmas :)J.C. (MYNN)

Have you heard of Radar Contact? An excellent ATC program that will take care of your complaint regarding endless go-arounds at least. I'm not sure what you mean by unrealistic AI behavior, but I haven't been run over on approach for years. The RC forum is here on AVSIM... you might take a read.DJ

Hi, J.C.Make yourself a (free) gift and step into online flying.When you try VATSIM, I can guarantee you will rediscover your simming. :( Maybe not exactly what you were asking about.But that is the frank advice I'd have for you.

Another programme besides Radar Contact is Pro Flight Emulator. They both have steep learning curves. In my opinion PFE has less robotic voices and a plain language interface instead of codes!Vololiberista

I use Radar conctact 4 for every IFR flight and although its not really much good for VFR But it is really awsome from IFR and allows you to run SIDS and STARS or get vectors and will sometimes put you in a Hold depending on the weather. There is a review of this program on the AVSIM site. It will also move AI out of the way if you are going to get too close.Once you get used to the system you will be able to do it without any problems.Radar Contact 5 is on its way but no idea when it will be relesed,

I am a real life Air Traffic Controller, so you can imagine that I get quite hacked off with unrealistic ATC in Flightsim.I can recommend Radar Contact 4 100%!Of all the options I have tried, this is the most realistic available. It does have a steep learning curve for the uninitiated, but is very similar to real life.I could not live without this bit of software.I tried flying with FS ATC recently (just to remind myself how bad it was) and had to turn it off and restart with RC4.Give it a try.Neil

It would be great to have an upgrade to the atc and AI in FS. My position is that the ATC is actually not to bad, you just need to know how to use it properly. But it could be a lot better.I've tried both PFE and Radar Contact (own them both), but the thing I don't like is that they interact only very superficially with the AI. And they become way to predictable.What I've always hoped for is a dll that allows programmers to access AI commands, like runway allocation and even direct control. FSUIPC allows me to control an AI, and I've started putting together a program that creates an individual thread for each aircraft, but it's a long laborious process to work out all the commands. It will take me a lot of time, and even then, I'd probably be too embarrassed to release it to anyone else.The Microsoft traffic toolbox came with a dll that allows a user to interact with the AI through a user-interface. Unfortunately, they did not provide a programmatic interface, making the whole SDK kind of useless. The only other thing I can think of is for a programmer to work out a way to access the AI directly through the simulator. That would also be quite laborious, and goes beyond my knowledge. There are people who could do it though (look at things like ActiveCamera and AES, which interact at a programmatic level).Anyway, I still hope beyond hope that someone will do something interesting. At least providing a programmatic interface for runway allocation would make things a lot mor realistic (I know there are people who will say a good AFCAD can do that, but they can't really - you can't make an aircraft flying from the east land on a west parallel runway, for instance).Till then, I'll keep plugging away with FSUIPC and see what I can learn. I've just worked out how to lower and raise the landing gear of AI - now I can watch AI land with wheels up. A long and laborious process indeed.Bryn.

Hi All, Thanks for all the replies. I've long heard about radar contact (both pros and cons), and I'm afraid that the cons (might just be a few opinions, for what it's worth), outweigh the pros(for me, at least). As a real life instrument rated pilot, I guess maybe I'm a bit demanding in terms of what I expect. For starters,( BTW I'm still using FS9), realistic departure clearances (depending on the geographic region, etc) would be a nice start. For example, the canned FS ATC departure clearance of being cleared to XYZ airport as filed isn't very realsitic where I fly. It would be nice to hear ATC say " cleared to Nassau via the Miami 9 departure, skips transition, then as filed, etc". Also, the usual Tower instructions for departure vary by locale and circumstance, e.g "cleared for take-off, runway 8, fly runway heading", or, "cleared for take-off, runway 8, left turn on course". Enroute holds for spacing or weather would be nice also, in addition to speed adjustments. Being able to request "direct to" clearances en-route would be nice also, in addition to STAR clearances as charted (altitude and speed restrictions, etc). Having AI fly more realistic routes would be nice also, in addition to proper spacing, and position and holding after landing traffic (depending on spacing options, of course). I could go on and on with my wish list, but for now, I'm perfectly willing to accept that only so much can be expected from a program that my friends call a "game", lol. Regards

Hi All, Thanks for all the replies. I've long heard about radar contact (both pros and cons), and I'm afraid that the cons (might just be a few opinions, for what it's worth), outweigh the pros(for me, at least). As a real life instrument rated pilot, I guess maybe I'm a bit demanding in terms of what I expect. For starters,( BTW I'm still using FS9), realistic departure clearances (depending on the geographic region, etc) would be a nice start. For example, the canned FS ATC departure clearance of being cleared to XYZ airport as filed isn't very realsitic where I fly. It would be nice to hear ATC say " cleared to Nassau via the Miami 9 departure, skips transition, then as filed, etc". Also, the usual Tower instructions for departure vary by locale and circumstance, e.g "cleared for take-off, runway 8, fly runway heading", or, "cleared for take-off, runway 8, left turn on course". Enroute holds for spacing or weather would be nice also, in addition to speed adjustments. Being able to request "direct to" clearances en-route would be nice also, in addition to STAR clearances as charted (altitude and speed restrictions, etc). Having AI fly more realistic routes would be nice also, in addition to proper spacing, and position and holding after landing traffic (depending on spacing options, of course). I could go on and on with my wish list, but for now, I'm perfectly willing to accept that only so much can be expected from a program that my friends call a "game", lol. Regards

My biggest disapointment with FSX...the exact same ATC system... The default could have been way better with just a few tweaks...anything...Oh well...

Till then, I'll keep plugging away with FSUIPC and see what I can learn. I've just worked out how to lower and raise the landing gear of AI - now I can watch AI land with wheels up. A long and laborious process indeed.Bryn.

Have you tried WOAI? http://www.world-of-ai.com/ They have animated landing gear, flaps & reversers. Also landing lights turn on pretty much when they should, throw in AIsmooth and its quite convincing and all free! One can also add Shockwave's 3d lights redux for a small price and night time gets 'lit up'

Hi All, Thanks for all the replies. I've long heard about radar contact (both pros and cons), and I'm afraid that the cons (might just be a few opinions, for what it's worth), outweigh the pros(for me, at least). As a real life instrument rated pilot, I guess maybe I'm a bit demanding in terms of what I expect. For starters,( BTW I'm still using FS9), realistic departure clearances (depending on the geographic region, etc) would be a nice start. For example, the canned FS ATC departure clearance of being cleared to XYZ airport as filed isn't very realsitic where I fly. It would be nice to hear ATC say " cleared to Nassau via the Miami 9 departure, skips transition, then as filed, etc". Also, the usual Tower instructions for departure vary by locale and circumstance, e.g "cleared for take-off, runway 8, fly runway heading", or, "cleared for take-off, runway 8, left turn on course". Enroute holds for spacing or weather would be nice also, in addition to speed adjustments. Being able to request "direct to" clearances en-route would be nice also, in addition to STAR clearances as charted (altitude and speed restrictions, etc). Having AI fly more realistic routes would be nice also, in addition to proper spacing, and position and holding after landing traffic (depending on spacing options, of course). I could go on and on with my wish list, but for now, I'm perfectly willing to accept that only so much can be expected from a program that my friends call a "game", lol. Regards

RCV 5 is coming and RCV4 has some short comings but as you well know to cover the globe w/ all the various differences not only in language but other things is demanding. I hope the new version will have some degree of varation in speech and voice. It is by far the best I have ever used for a multitude of reasons. As one stated above, if you really want something different then VATSIM may be what you nn, I have never done the online thing but many love it. I think ATC may be the single most difficult sim to produce and it is in many respects still in it's growing years. Maybe thats why there are so few...2 that I am aware of! Also so many simmers do not understand even the basics of ATC and hence the learning curve is almost too much. Real life controllers can attest to the amount of education required before sitting behind a screen. I will disagree w/ you on one thing, I think the pros do outway the cons w/ respect to RC, like the acrft we enjoy, you will never achieve total realism until you do the real thing. And at least in your case once you have done the real thing then yes, all of this becomes just what it is, a fun hobby. All the best

RCV 5 is coming and RCV4 has some short comings but as you well know to cover the globe w/ all the various differences not only in language but other things is demanding. I hope the new version will have some degree of varation in speech and voice. It is by far the best I have ever used for a multitude of reasons. As one stated above, if you really want something different then VATSIM may be what you nn, I have never done the online thing but many love it. I think ATC may be the single most difficult sim to produce and it is in many respects still in it's growing years. Maybe thats why there are so few...2 that I am aware of! Also so many simmers do not understand even the basics of ATC and hence the learning curve is almost too much. Real life controllers can attest to the amount of education required before sitting behind a screen. I will disagree w/ you on one thing, I think the pros do outway the cons w/ respect to RC, like the acrft we enjoy, you will never achieve total realism until you do the real thing. And at least in your case once you have done the real thing then yes, all of this becomes just what it is, a fun hobby. All the best

Will RC5 offer VFR support? I only fly IFR when reaching the flight levels or weather says so...rest is VFR...I read that RC4 does not....

Will RC5 offer VFR support? I only fly IFR when reaching the flight levels or weather says so...rest is VFR...I read that RC4 does not....

v5 will have vfr

As a real pilot in the real world the FS9 ATC, RC, and PFE do not come close to reality. FS9 ATC is simply a joke!!! The others attempt in a small and very complicated way to address the problem. PFE has about 100 voices so you usually hear the right accent for the region in which you are flying and also the right accent for the airline's country of origin. There is a very dishy chinese girl who flies P2 for Cathay Pacific!!! Having said that both PFE and RC do not follow the correct procedures even so. Your best bet is to get out into the realworld and do some real flying!!Vololiberista

v5 will have vfr

Halleluja :-D Now make it come :-P