I find it funny how all leaked screenshots and videos are by someone who runs it with low/medium settings and leaves the HUD display at the top of the screen...making it look bad/like a game.

There was one YT video that showed the Stearman off well. Even went down the checklist and stuff. I think it was titled "kittens" or something. I cant find it now, or maybe it was taken down?

There was one YT video that showed the Stearman off well. Even went down the checklist and stuff. I think it was titled "kittens" or something. I cant find it now, or maybe it was taken down?

I heard about that one...sadly, never got to see it before it was taken down.

Just to back up that games make way more money than flight sims:#1 Flight Sim: FSX sold 1 million copies in 5 years at ~$40 = $40 million = $22,000 per day#1 Game: COD MW3 sold $1 billion in 16 days = $62,500,000 per dayOne day of MW3 sales generated more revenue than all 5 years of FSX sales.We as simmers don't care about these numbers. But you can bet that CEOs and shareholders do. From their perspective it makes sense to market to both gamers and simmers. With good programming and the right DLC, we will see if this is achievable.Ben

Hey Arwen,Don't let anyone drive you away. Not all oldtime simmers breathe stale air. Please come back and participate.Kind regards,

The trouble with being new...The reason X-Plane is certified by the FAA...

Dillon, I'd like to make two points:1. Had you read Arwen's brief bio-sketch, you'd realize that she's hardly "new," except as an active member of AVSIM.2. X-Plane is NOT "certified by the FAA." The FAA does not certify software. Period.I do so wish that folks would quit blindly trotting out that tired old mantra. Unless the specific PCATD by make, model number, designated software version, with all of the specified hardware as listed in the unit's FAA qualification documentation is available and functioning, then and only then can that unit be used in an integrated ground and flight instrument training curriculum up to the maximum of 10 hours of training as described in the AC. Having said that, that training in a fully functioning FAA-qualified PCATD must be given by an authorized instructor and an appropriate pilot training entry made by that authorized instructor in the student's log book. Here is a sample of a letter certifying a specific FTD (see: http://www.aopa.org/...faa_8700-10.pdf for the full text):

Representatives of the ______________Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) completed an evaluation of the __________________ Serial Number____________Flight Training Device (FTD) identified herein. The Qualification Test Guide for this FTD is based on __(Reference Data Report ##)______ approved by the Manager, National Simulator Program, on____________ . This FTD was evaluated to Level_____ standards as outlined in Advisory Circular (AC) 120-45A, Airplane Flight Training Device Qualification, and is approved for use by XYZ Airline Training Center, Inc., as outlined below:

The major emphasis for all "approved" or "certified" devices is specific hardware for switches, knobs, radio controls, throttle lever(s), et cetera. The software used isn't a major issue as long as it provides proper responses to the inputs, and valid data for the output (instruments) et cetera.Here is a link to the FAA's "Advisory Circular" outlining the evaluation and qualification requirements for airplane simulators:http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%20120-40B/$FILE/Signature.pdfHere's a link to an old post at X-Plane.org discussing this topic, in which was written:

The FAA differentiates between flight simulators and flight training devices. AFAIK, X-Plane has never --with one possible exception*-- been used in an approved flight simulator; only in an approved FTD.

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=41528&st=0

Just to back up that games make way more money than flight sims:#1 Flight Sim: FSX sold 1 million copies in 5 years at ~$40 = $40 million = $22,000 per day#1 Game: COD MW3 sold $1 billion in 16 days = $62,500,000 per day

Then please do it properly. The 1 million sales for FSX was only in the US. I don't have the numbers for global sales at hand right now, but I seem to remember they were 3-5 times higher (someone more knowledgable please post the real numbers). In addition, it's not fair to use the first 2 weeks' sales for a title like COD for comparison. This kind of games generates huge revenue in the first couple of weeks, but after a year or so no-one is interested anymore. FSX, on the other hand, had a very slow start, but kept on selling at a much more constant rate.I wonder whether a year after launch the sales of COD aren't even lower than those of FSX. This might not turn out to be true, but I guess the longer a time you use to average the sales the better FSX looks compared to a shooter.

We as simmers don't care about these numbers. But you can bet that CEOs and shareholders do. From their perspective it makes sense to market to both gamers and simmers. With good programming and the right DLC, we will see if this is achievable.

I agree -- it is important to stay profitable, and with the DLC concept it is possible to address both gamers and simmers. I am sure that Flight will contain much more than just coins and aerocaches. Many hints show that there has been work to prepare it for radio navigation, ATC, airliners, global coverage, real-world weather etc.For now we have to wait and see what kind of content will be available on the store. I'm pretty sure we will see content to above stock FSX/acceleration pack level, but for now I don't see a chance for highly detailed add-ons like PMDG, which is sad indeed. However, if Flight starts to be of interest to the simmers, MS might try to get 3rd party developers back on board. I'm sure they would return happily if just the money is right. I'm not so sure whether MS would really do that. Although this seems to be best for all parties involved, MS has surprised us too often with decisions that no one can understand from outside their realm.

Edited January 26, 201214 yr by pstrub

Thanks Dillon, for that well thought out post. I think you have summed up many people's sentiments here, and hopefully explained to Arwen where the anger comes from, and why the communtiy is split over Flight.

Not all oldtime simmers breathe stale air

Unfortunately I can't say the same about that post.

my god that's a lot of words

"Change is scary therefore any change at all is inherently bad"

View Postnateanderson, on 25 January 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:Just to back up that games make way more money than flight sims:#1 Flight Sim: FSX sold 1 million copies in 5 years at ~$40 = $40 million = $22,000 per day#1 Game: COD MW3 sold $1 billion in 16 days = $62,500,000 per dayThen please do it properly. The 1 million sales for FSX was only in the US. I don't have the numbers for global sales at hand right now, but I seem to remember they were 3-5 times higher (someone more knowledgable please post the real numbers). In addition, it's not fair to use the first 2 weeks' sales for a title like COD for comparison. This kind of games generates huge revenue in the first couple of weeks, but after a year or so no-one is interested anymore. FSX, on the other hand, had a very slow start, but kept on selling at a much more constant rate.I wonder whether a year after launch the sales of COD aren't even lower than those of FSX. This might not turn out to be true, but I guess the longer a time you use to average the sales the better FSX looks compared to a shooter.

OK, I tried to look around for figures on FSX sales. MS must keep these numbers in a safe somewhere. But it would appear that FSX hit 1 million shipments (not sales) during Christmas of 2006. Perhaps it has sold 1-2 million since then. This still maxes out at 3 million @ $40 = $120 million, and I do not believe it is that high. For sure FSX has a longer shelf life than a specific version of COD. Still, FSX has no chance of matching the sales of even an average game, comparing the total life of each title. The axing of ACES proves that the sales of FSX were not generating enough revenue and potential revenue through sales of FS11 to cover the ACES development expense plus support for FSX.From looking at the official and leaked videos and screenshots, is is obvious that Flight will attempt to satisfy both the gamer and the simmer. Flying through a bunch of wind generators in a "car-like" Akon collecting "aerochaches" is definitely for gamers. The great detail in the aircraft (down to the rivets, oil stains and decals), high quality sounds (touchdown & brake sounds on the Stearman), airports and cities is for simmers. Remember also that ACES did work on FS11 for a period of time, and all that investment will definitely show up in Flight. MS will have to face the fact at some point that simmers need a lot of quality add-ons, which they will not be able to provide in-house. They can certainly provide some, like they did with Acceleration, but if they want the Flight title to survive more than a few months, they will need to woo the 3PDs again.Ben

All I can say is wow. I'm pretty astounded by the negative attitudes concerning a new FS release. I've been pretty excited about the pending release and thought the talk might be interesting, but I was wrong. It's mostly venting and gnashing of teeth. Not that I'm surprised, really. I've seen the same go on in the past, and remember the negativity surrounding the FSX release, which turned out to be a great simulator for me and one I still enjoy. Maybe I've got too much going on, but I'm glad I haven't spent any time here now. I'm not new to FS as I've had them all the way back to the Sublogic version for the Apple IIe in 1983 and have had every single version since and have flown about everything else that came out as well through the years. Some good, some great, some not so great.Personally, I like Flight. I like the way the flight model feels, the way it looks and think it has the most immersive quality to it of any flight simulator I've yet flown. I'm not as big on the game aspects of it, but there are those out there that are and might even find more enduring interest through those means. I know I can find what I enjoy through it and expect that it will evolve further. I thought this might be the end of it after the demise of the original crew, but thankfully, for me at least, that's not the case. It may not be exactly what I want at first, but I'm hopeful that it will expand further as time goes on. From reading some of these posts, I'm more reminded of petulant children who would take great pleasure in the failure of this sim because it's not what they want. It's a strange attitude that doesn't serve anyone on any subject of life including flight simulators and is telling statement of the type of person you are. It's also a stark reminder of why I no longer participate in forum bantering any longer.

This still maxes out at 3 million @ $40 = $120 million, and I do not believe it is that high.

Depends what you are comparing it to. If you compare it to Grand Theft Auto IV, or World of Warcraft, nope it's not high. But for a simulator it's very high.

It may not be exactly what I want at first, but I'm hopeful that it will expand further as time goes on.

Of course it will expand - the way Microsoft see fit. Not much else one can do is there, other than hope? We don't have any control to do anything with this sim. There will be no SDK, no freeware, no tinkering with it - none of those creative things that made the FS so much fun for so many over all those years. Aslo, one thing I have enjoyed the 3rd Party developers like PMDG and A2A is that they talk to their customers. Austin Meyer talks to his customers. If Microsoft ever answer it is one of those automatic responses. So I seriously doubt whether they'll acknowldeg any feedback or wishlists you give them. So keep hoping - and keep your wallet handy.

From reading some of these posts, I'm more reminded of petulant children who would take great pleasure in the failure of this sim because it's not what they want. It's a strange attitude that doesn't serve anyone on any subject of life including flight simulators and is telling statement of the type of person you are. It's also a stark reminder of why I no longer participate in forum bantering any longer.

I find some of the Flight supporters' overly positive attitudes equally strange :(. From reading some of those posts, I am reminded of religious people, or rather, the blind loyalty of happy Scientologists who unquestioningly follow their beliefs and accept without criticism the authority of the organisation behind them. The brain-washed legions.

Edited January 26, 201214 yr by JasonD210

I find some of the Flight supporters' overly positive attitudes equally strange. From reading some of those posts, I am reminded of religious people, or rather, the blind loyalty of happy Scientologists who unquestioningly follow their beliefs and accept with out criticism the authority of the organisation behind them.

WE seem to be in agreement.

Personally, I like Flight. I like the way the flight model feels, the way it looks and think it has the most immersive quality to it of any flight simulator I've yet flown. I'm not as big on the game aspects of it, but there are those out there that are and might even find more enduring interest through those means. I know I can find what I enjoy through it and expect that it will evolve further. I thought this might be the end of it after the demise of the original crew, but thankfully, for me at least, that's not the case. It may not be exactly what I want at first, but I'm hopeful that it will expand further as time goes on.

sunhawk - welcome to our cult! We firmly hope for the best, don't judge without facts, feel that major corporations do NOT have it out for us personally, and think that having the opportunity to try something for free is great. Yes, we're a little strange, but we're happy in our little world!By the way - the above was my slightly sarcastic way of thanking you for your positive post!

Edited January 27, 201214 yr by newthog

I find some of the Flight supporters' overly positive attitudes equally strange :(. From reading some of those posts, I am reminded of religious people, or rather, the blind loyalty of happy Scientologists who unquestioningly follow their beliefs and accept without criticism the authority of the organisation behind them. The brain-washed legions.

Or maybe they just like it? I find it rather odd that your only possible conclusion as to why someone would like it, is fanboyism or brain washing. Do you really want Flight to be that bad? Or maybe its just the cool thing to do right now? Like the school yard when someone starts picking on the new kid. Everyone seems to gather around any join in. Its like some carnal pre-historic natural instinct takes over, and anyone who defends the new kid also gets set upon. Somehow it became "cool" to pick on Flight, and anyone defending it is ruthlessly attacked. Its just really sad to see a community reduced to that.

I find some of the Flight supporters' overly positive attitudes equally strange :(. From reading some of those posts, I am reminded of religious people, or rather, the blind loyalty of happy Scientologists who unquestioningly follow their beliefs and accept without criticism the authority of the organisation behind them. The brain-washed legions.

That's interesting, I was thinking Jim Jones... :(

Or maybe they just like it?

How can you 'like' something that hasn't officially been released yet? :(

Edited January 27, 201214 yr by Dillon