if I were Microsoft I wouldn't even give the time of day to AVSIM.

What makes you think they do in the first place? If you think the invitation to AVSIM to the December gathering was anything but motivated by self interest, then you're misplacing your confidence / trust in MS.As I said, we walk a fine line between over moderation and chaos. You have been here long enough to know that as well as how we approach that challenge. When you perceived that happening here, why didn't you report the offending post, or send a PM to one of the mods or to me? I am not trying to turn this back on you, but the community members here, including you, share some responsibility to moderate these forums along with us. I like to think that is what the meaning of "community" is. You know, akin to "neigborhood watch"...

Wise move Tom, the discussions and general respect shown towards other members found in that forum are a poor reflection on the larger simmer base as a wholeNuke it for all I care, it was just a ton of useless stinking misinformation

Good call, Tom. Tedious, petty and ill-informed were terms that spring to mind.If a forum lacks anything constructive or positive, it does tend to descend into detritus.Time to move on.

I think it was a good move to close the current forum. It was just too painfull watching the direction it was taking (had taken).However, I am not too optimistic that things will change much when the "new" Flight forum opens on the 29th...unless there are some very strong changes to the forum rules (a possibility mentioned by Tom). Reason is the forum posters will still be divided in their "love/hate" relationship between FSX and Flight. The FSX users who feel "We got screwed and abandoned" will still criticize Flight with "I told you so!" posts because they are unwilling to accept change.I for one will continue to use FSX, and will also download Flight and try it. I will not expect it to be the next generation of FSX...at least for now. Whether it grows into something "spectacular" over the next few years no one can really say. But then, when I started Flight Simming way back when on my Commodore 64, I never envisioned the day I would have spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years continuing doing so. And it wouldn't surprise me if I keep spending money to enhance my Flight experience over the next several years if I end up liking the platform. Heck...it's exactly what I did with every "new version" of "flight simulators" that came out over the past 3 - 4 decades.Tom, I commend you on closing the Flight forum for now. I encourage the same "guts" be applied in making sure the new Flight forum on the 29th doesn't turn into an "FSX vs Flight" p*issing contest.Respectfully submitted

However, I am not too optimistic that things will change much when the "new" Flight forum opens on the 29th...unless there are some very strong changes to the forum rules (a possibility mentioned by Tom). Reason is the forum posters will still be divided in their "love/hate" relationship between FSX and Flight. The FSX users who feel "We got screwed and abandoned" will still criticize Flight with "I told you so!" posts because they are unwilling to accept change.

My thoughts exactly. But I sincerely hope it won't be necessary to take these kind of drastic measures again after Flight has been released...

I agree 100% with Tom. Freedom of speech is only good up to a point, then it becomes annoying. When it transcends good manners and mutual respect then it's like a kid in a sand box, full of kitty liter. The cat's freedom to use the box interferes with the kid's enjoyment. Good call Tom, the sand in the box needed a make over. Too much verbal cat poop.

I agree 100% with Tom. Freedom of speech is only good up to a point, then it becomes annoying. When it transcends good manners and mutual respect then it's like a kid in a sand box, full of kitty liter. The cat's freedom to use the box interferes with the kid's enjoyment. Good call Tom, the sand in the box needed a make over. Too much verbal cat poop.

Dan, you crack me up! :LMAO:

Tom,It was something that was necessary, and I applaud you for it. Perhaps it will give everyone a chance to get back to flying.

You make a very valid point. We can archive those messages in to a subforum of the FLIGHT forum and make it read only. Good thinking Attila!

Please do. Sometimes it is necessary to step in and stop the madness, but rewriting history and pretending that it never happened might be going a little too far.

Edited February 17, 201214 yr by dm123

I found it very entertaining. It was like watching WWF, except the fights were not fake.

Though we have said it a million times, this forum is not a democracy and members do not have unfettered "freedom of speach", we do try to allow as much as we can in the way of debate, dialog, etc. etc. We try to maintain a balance and usually it works out. This time internal staff discussions led to the decision to shut it down because it became infantile, sophmoric and downright displeasing to watch.We will get brickbats from both sides and I am sure snide comments will be made in other forums about it, and drama queens like the OP, but with as many members as we have, and the prospect of introducing the future simmers to this community's vision of simulation, it became too much.

Are you saying that monitoring the Flight forum was becoming very difficult? Or do you think it was hurting the site?

In my opinion the forum should have been closed when the personal attacks on Joshua Howard of Microsoft began. Given that they were allowed to run, if I were Microsoft I wouldn't even give the time of day to AVSIM.

hmm..I can't find personal attacks on him. But hey there is so much to read there.

I frequented usenet flightsim groups in the past and only recently joined the Avsim forums. there are definite advantages to a moderated forum. expressing opinions is great but seeing some members practically ridiculed just because they had a differing view, or more positive outlook was reason enough to close that forum down. there aren't many devoted flight simmers in the world so lets give each other some respect, even if we don't agree...

I frequented usenet flightsim groups in the past and only recently joined the Avsim forums.

I participated in usenet flightsim groups for years. I finally gave up on them about seven years ago and haven't missed them one bit... :LMAO:Well, I have missed some of the more friendly and colorful folks, some of whom I consider to be close friends.

Please do. Sometimes it is necessary to step in and stop the madness, but rewriting history and pretending that it never happened might be going a little too far.

Done.

Are you saying that monitoring the Flight forum was becoming very difficult? Or do you think it was hurting the site?

Whatever... It became unacceptable. Pretty simple.