Totaly agree, beta testing is not to add features it is to test and find bugs in the exisiting program before release.

My vote also for the purpose of beta testing. I would go so far as to say that it is never about adding new functions. It is always about testing what is there works as per what it says on the tin - not what it does not say on the tin.

Adding features should be over when you transition from alpha to beta testing. Beta is about making what you have actually work.

That is kind of what I was thinking, I was very heavily involved in beta testing in prior years, and it was always about finding bugs/glitches, testing new things.

Especially with the short amount of time of the Flight program testing...

I remember the FSX beta. It's purpose was to test the "last minute" changes, to detect if the changes broke anything. Sometimes they did, and the team would attempt a correction of the break. There were some suggestions that the team implemented.

 

In Flight, it seems there was a greater concentration on tweaking and repair, rather than implementing any new suggestions... and this is probably the proper use of beta testing. Beta testers aren't consultants.

 

Back on topic:

 

I'm glad Tom posted here, to clarify his take on Flight, and the role of this forum.

 

AVSIM could just remove this forum. AVSIM could also add a "haters" forum to give more extreme members a chance to publicly air their opinions. AVSIM has chosen to allow this forum to exist and has invited the more extreme posters to leave the Flight forum, if not the entire website. This reasonable approach allows us all to behave in a gentlemanly manner to each other.

 

I like Flight. I do not like the DLC choices. I do not like the closed addon approach Microsoft is embracing. Like Tom, I don't feel like harping about it... But a bit of reasonable discussion of percieved shortfalls by Microsoft might help steer their future decisions if ( or when ) their DLC proves less profitable than the old marketing approach. As I understand Tom's above post, he would allow for this type of discussion.

 

But, the problem is not AVSIM, or Tom, or Microsoft. The problem is us. Some of us just cannot let our grievences go. I'm sure this is why even reasonable discussions may get some heavy-handed 'editing' from now on.

 

At FSDeveloper, we took a different approach to Flight. We deleted and eliminated the entire sub-forum. We did this because there is no 3rd party developer issues with Flight as that is not currently allowed. Our solution was simple, and it also neatly avoids any bitterness or anger forum members may have concerning Flight. By the time MS may allow 3rd party content, the hate should have disapated. Sneaky, huh?

 

I recently wrote at FSDeveloper my feelings about my fellow developers. I also feel this way about my fellow sim users and the members of AVSIM's community:

 

We are in this together. By far, most of the world doesn't understand our love and concern about our hobby. We are odd. Wives, friends, co-workers are not part of this aspect of our lives. It is important to us, and they think we need some psychological help... I'm not joking... they really do think we are unbalanced.

 

All we have is each other. All we have is each other. All we have is each other...

 

If we write with this in mind, we will be respectful to one another. Anger, disgust, shock... OK. Bullying, cruelty, mocking... not OK. Here's a tip if you are getting in trouble with the mods or admins: write the post, but do not add it to the forum. Instead, save the text with notepad to the desktop, read it tomorrow, and see if it still needs to be publically posted. Works most of the time.

 

Dick

^{Tom, I would just like to say, I truly appreciate everything that AVSIM does for the aviation community as a whole. I really owe a lot of my own success to the presence AVSIM has in the WWW. And if I ever bring a spirit of discontent to any discussion, it is never my intent. I would never want to in any way disparage what I feel is a great relationship with you guys. So, I try to choose my words carefully, and never wish to inflame anyone. And on occasion, I may be wrong about some things, which can often stem from my own misunderstanding. I honestly believe, AVSIM is here to support a hobby that we all love, and is not here to play referee with any product. Your views are usually unbiased, and informative. Thats why I like this place. You guys are always "In The Know" !! And if I have ever expressed a negative opinion on a forum, its usually because of the same thing you're tired of, the relentless crap that produces nothing but animosity between members. So for my own actions, I do apologize to you and the entire community.}

The problem is us. Some of us just cannot let our grievences go. I'm sure this is why even reasonable discussions may get some heavy-handed 'editing' from now on.

 

I agree. There's a need to accept reality - Flight is what it is and what it was intended to be. Those who were hoping for something else need to realise that and not spoil this forum for those who do enjoy Flight. They are surely entitled to have a forum aimed at increasing their enjoyment and knowledge, just as in other forums.

 

I downloaded Flight on the first day and was impressed with the quality improvements out of the box compared with FSX. However, I still mainly use FS9 and FSX because my preference is for VFR flying in the UK, but if and when Microsoft release a UK DLC I'll buy it instantantly.

I don't think there is a single person on this forum who is not conscious of shortcomings in the game, so having these aspects endlessly pointed out is pointless and boring.

 

I agree, and the word "endlessly" is the key concept here.

... the problem is not AVSIM, or Tom, or Microsoft. The problem is us. Some of us just cannot let our grievences go..

 

...We are in this together. By far, most of the world doesn't understand our love and concern about our hobby. We are odd. Wives, friends, co-workers are not part of this aspect of our lives. It is important to us, and they think we need some psychological help... I'm not joking... they really do think we are unbalanced.

 

All we have is each other. All we have is each other. All we have is each other...

 

Dick

 

What he said!

Best regards.

Luis

Tom,

Great explanation of your position. I support you completely.

 

Stan

Hi Folks

 

In reference to the negative comments made on FLIGHT's website blog -

You have to ask yourself why ?

those are their dlc customers expressing their utter disappointement

In the main,

those commenters are not "their dlc customers".

 

Or at least they weren't,

as from a very quick look,

those meawanna's off-topic cockpit comments

appear to since have been expunged.

 

Anyway -

Your supposition gives unfair weight

to that vociferous minority of self-appointed supposed core-customers.

 

 

 

Some background -

Posting a comment to FLIGHT's website blog

requires the poster to login using their GamerTag.

 

On checking against those commenter's GamerTags,

many had -

- Either possibly - never installed, or had since uninstalled, FLIGHT.

- Risibly claimed to have completed all FLIGHT's activities.

- Not bothered to even attempt FLIGHT's core aspects.

 

i.e.

The vast majority,

had acquired less than 100 GamerPoints,

from AIUI, at least 415 achievable without any DLC.

 

 

 

You can easily verify the validity of any user's perspective or claims

by plugging their GamerTag into Microsoft FLIGHT's - Activity -Xbox.com

Replace BASys at the end of that URL, with your selected user's GamerTag.

 

N.B.

Note 1 -

The above link specifically uses my own GamerTag

as it would be unfair of me

to have highlighted any other member's activity/inactivity in FLIGHT.

 

Note 2 -

Plugging in any beta-team member's GamerTag

will, in some cases, possibly give an inappropriate impression of their activity in FLIGHT.

Please remember,

they've been playing FLIGHT's betas since its unexpected early 4th Jan release,

and probably haven't gotten round to re-performing those activities.

 

 

 

For the record -

Whilst I like FLIGHT's potential,

I'm not, as some would describe, a Fanboi of FLIGHT,

as there are several aspects I'm not happy with.

e.g.

I'd love to be able to -

- Fly the world

- Create Missions/Challenges for FLIGHT,

 

Given the requirements of GFWL/Xbox anti-cheat framework,

it's probably unlikely MS will open the Missions/Challenges API to 3PDs.

 

However -

Even without any DLC,

anyone managing to see beyond, as someone else put it, - "the little yellow hoops" aspect,

FLIGHT's core product, as-is,

offers some excellent training opportunities for everyone,

including those self-declared hard-core simmers !

 

After all,

If you can't consistently achieve full score, (1500 points, and not just Gold),

in the Icon's various Landing Challenges,

what chance have you of similarly greasing a 747 ?

 

 

 

HTH

ATB

Paul

Overall Yes to the posts on this thread.

 

All we have is each other. All we have is each other. All we have is each other...

Absolutely true.

 

I wrote this on the very first post I made here at AVSIM.

The point of our hobby is Flying, isn’t it? Well, I have tried Ms Flight and it is about flying.

Test pilots live to try new aircraft, new systems, etc. and probably many of us at one time or another has dreamed of being a test pilot.

 

So let’s do the test pilot thing and give Flight a fair chance.

 

If we don’t like it, we can always go back to the Flight Simulator of our choice. But if we do, we can have both.

 

The other thing to keep very firmly in mind is that this entire discussion is not new. The flight sim world hasn't really recovered from the FSX/FS9 wars yet, and whatever it takes to nick that sort of crap in the bud has my support. In fact if you rewind to 2006/2007 and replace the word MS Flight with FSX, a lot of the posts are very similar. This isn't an original movie, it's a sequel.

I have no problem with people saying negitive things about Flight. Its something the dev's WANT to hear. The problem I have is a few people do nothing but say negitive thinsg OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Thats were I draw the line. If you dont like Flight, then it may not be a good idea to hang around a Flight forum spewing constant negitive post's, and you KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

Hi Folks

 

In fact if you rewind to 2006/2007

and replace the word MS Flight with FSX, a lot of the posts are very similar.

This isn't an original movie, it's a sequel.

Whose cast includes several lead characters reprising their former roles. :lol:

 

ATB

Paul