Avsim is an ideal, a concept that sprang forth from the beginnings of computer flight simulation. There have been far more serious challenges that were overcome over the past 15 years than we can even recite. Because Avsim prevailed over the odds each time, we are still here.

 

All of us have differing preferences, perceptions and choices when it comes to how we each participate in flight simulation. No two computers, hardware or software are the same. In fact most of us can not even agree on a single platform to fly with.

 

Avsim is not on a mission to iron out the differences and variations between us, but to accommodate as many divisions as possible by providing a home for each. So whether it be fs9, fsx, X-Plane, Flight, P3D, or any other of the games and simulations, each has a place right here on Avsim.

 

About MS Flight, some liked it, but most didn't. Many that didn't were not satisfied to just withhold their support but lashed out against MS through the Avsim MS Flight forum or anywhere else they could take a shot from. All too often these guys couldn't care less about being fair to those they disagreed with.

 

There will always be rivalry between adherants of different simulation platforms as we are a competitive and abrasive bunch most of the time. That is probably why there are so few ladies among us. But even so, there is a commonly held level of bad conduct that goes too far by anyone, anywhere.

 

The false accusations or insinuations that Avsim, or Tom Allensworth, or staff, at any level, was either bought off, pressured, or in any other way unduly influenced by MS on behalf of MS Flight is beyond acceptable limits. Such statements, or anything like it have no part to play in this community.

 

Avsim, or it's staff have never received a single dollar from MS on behalf of flight, directly or indirectly. Their advertising they placed with us was so screwed up by them that we refunded their money. At no time did any of us ever weight commercial interests against news covered or forum policy.

 

Tom Allensworth is an honorable man. Avsim is an honorable institution. We are honorable administrators and moderators. This is our land, our house, our home; and we will not be defamed, slandered and libeled here! Those who have made such claims, hinted at such (nudge nudge, wink wink), or agreed with them are no longer welcome to enter or stay.

 

Therefore I am permanently banning those who participated or made a point to actively agree in supporting the posts or statements in question. Presently that includes Carl Anderson and Lordblowtorch. Anyone else who writes in similar fashion or defends the libel against us, or hints at it, will follow suit.

 

Avsim has been here for 15 years and Tom and the crew have done their best to be supportive of every flight simulation platform that came along. Flight was no less, and no more than that. Instead of condemnation, I think high praise is in order for being such good stewards.

 

We may not be perfect but we do try, and we are not leaving any time soon. I hope that those who may not agree with everything we say and do, but yet have an interest in supporting us at this difficult time will stand up and be counted as our friends.

 

Kind regards,

 

Hear, hear!!! As an AVSIM staff member I am glad to see that it is not tolerated, thanks for the post Stephen and thanks for being decisive!

 

Kind regards

This is an extremely generous gesture on the part of Avsim towards Microsoft, and no doubt one that you were not obliged to perform, given the successful display of the banner ads for some weeks on the Avsim forum. Well done.

 

 

This is a surprising step given the vocal outrage (voiced here at Avsim by senior moderators no less) when another private vendors forum banned members for apparently 'speaking their mind'.

 

I have questioned the consistency of moderation across forums here (which of course you can react to as you see fit), but to protest "bannings" on another private vendor's forum, whilst banning members "here" who disagree with the forum operators is somewhat suggestive of ... (insert your choice of word)

 

Simply "agreeing" with someone earns a ban at Avsim? You surprise me.

 

Paradoxically, banning people in this way kind-of refutes the idea of an impartial forum, does it not?

 

I don't know where you are coming from nor which forums others are mentioning.

 

But alone these words you put here, show us the kind of people we are have to put up against. As momtchil said in his post, some have really no idea what we Admins do in the background to maintain the integrity of the forums. It's a huge forum with thousands of members, yet even simplest tasks sometime take hours to accomplish. And we do it for free in our free time. This is something you apparently have no respect for.

 

As for speaking their mind, you can do that, it's no problem. I see users each day speaking their mind. If a member gets banned for that, there must be a reason. Whilst you say those who agreed got banned - yes, sure - what is the difference between posting what is on your mind, simply agreeing to it or just clicking the arrow button. Basically all the same thing, as it is a thought that counts. If I would say Avsim sucks and you agreed to it, it is well seen as you would agree that Avsim sucks. And we both get banned. For me a clear choice.

 

We will do whatever is necessary to maintain the integrity of Avsim, to make it an enjoyable place to anyone who want to come here and discuss the relevant stuff. Those with hidden motives, agendas, opinions on how Tom and we should run the place... can speak their mind, but must also expect our minds at work.

With the warn

Can I offer my opinion as to this or will I be banned for doing so?

 

With the warning points you have accumulated I think I'd pass...

I don't know where you are coming from nor which forums others are mentioning.

 

I believe he's referring to the events that happened with Orbx last year. Orbx made a substantial number of products available for pre-order and some of the long time supporters/customers pre-purchased them. However, within a few weeks of the last product being released all of them were discounted 33% in an Orbx sale. Some of the customers who had pre-ordered and paid at the full price felt they had been duped and their loyalty/support had been taken advantage of. They made their dissent known over on the Orbx forums and Orbx took on a zero-tolerance policy when it came to criticism of Orbx - quite a few well known members who had been stalwarts of the Orbx forum were banned.

 

Shortly thereafter Avsim created an "unofficial" Orbx forum which became something of a refugee camp for those exiled from the official Orbx forum. There was an awful lot of Orbx bashing going on in the unofficial Orbx forum here - a forum in which SpiritFlyer was an active participant and moderator - and I think that is what hcornea is referring to.

 

 

 

All part of the Flight Sim Forum Soap Opera that has been running for more years than I care to remember.

I was an admin/mod at a wargaming forum for 3 years and ran it singlehanded while the Big Boss was at work or down the pub and the atmosphere was great because I simply didn't tolerate bozos and quickly kicked them out.

Then the BB went bananas and decided to lower standards and let bozos register, and within 5 minutes all the good atmosphere had gone and the place descended to schoolyard brat level with name-calling and backbiting, so i walked out last year in disgust.

The moral- get rid of members who don't shape up or they'll stink out the whole place!

I've been trying to get to this sooner, but had a very busy week working. I'm in full agreement with Stephen and will defend this institution with all I've got.

Stephen, for what it is worth, my thumb is up in regards to you and AVSIM! It is sad indeed that there are a few out there who just don't comprehend civility and some level of live and let live. Instead their vanity, arrogance and ego drives them to believe they are always going to be the one who is right and become driven to bad behavior in a effort to prove it. Then of course there are others who simply, . . . . . how should I word this, . . . . .behave like they are possessed, for no other rational reason than to get negative attention. ( I don't mean rational on their part! )

 

I remember very well that when AVSIM was hacked there was a wonderful outpouring of support from the forum's members. I also remember that there was also a small number of the types described above who made all sorts of horrible accusations, or implied wrong doing on Tom's or AVSIM's part. Yet there was no evidence, no facts or truth to support what they were writing - that didn't stop them. They were wrong and didn't care who they hurt or insulted.

 

AVSIM survives because of the decent members of the forums, the decent people who make AVSIM work the way it works and that is from Tom at the top to every level below. All are people who love flying in one form or another. Most of whom are willing to share their knowledge, their talent or their advice anytime it is asked for. This all leads me to my final thought / question. I wonder how many of the trouble makers, fit throwers or name callers etc. actually ever managed to constructively help someone or offer some good advice with a pleasant attitude? They are not going to be missed I don't think.

 

Best regards to all,

Mel

 

P.S. For me at least, I view civility or whatever you choose to call it, as a work in progress that should be refined and practiced upon constantly. We all slip a little sometimes and that could be forgiven, however the types discussed in this topic may be beyond redemption.

Thanks Stephen and, all the AVSIM staff for all, you do.......

Stephen I agree with your post in it entirety, and if I may ask, is there a reason why Tom did not reply to the poster, after all Tom himself asked for the poster to be a little less obtuse about his comments.

 

You all keep the good work, Avsim is a fine place to come and exchange ideas.

and if I may ask, is there a reason why Tom did not reply to the poster, after all Tom himself asked for the poster to be a little less obtuse about his comments.

 

I have not "yet" responded. That doesn't mean I won't.

I have not "yet" responded. That doesn't mean I won't.

 

Fair enough Tom, I was just asking because I know you are like me, a straight shooter.

Fair enough Tom, I was just asking because I know you are like me, a straight shooter.

 

I am thinking my blog will be the scene of a response, when it comes. There are a couple of other issues that have been brewing lately that also need a little airing out, so to speak.

I've been trying to get to this sooner, but had a very busy week working. I'm in full agreement with Stephen and will defend this institution with all I've got.

 

+1

Tom, looking forward to your blog. Robert's post in this thread was incredibly interesting, I imagine yours will be too.

 

-Blake

Chaps,

 

I think we need to re-focus on what Avsim stands for, and also what a Forum is intended to do. Whilst yes, it provides a means for people to voice their opinion, an often forgotten ingredient is respect.

 

The written word is a double edged sword. Whilst it is a firm statement from the writer, it is also open to interpretation by the readers. This is why we have moderators and other people who wish to keep the voice in the hobby we love and enjoy as open and accesible to all as it is possible. If that means some people who do not wish to be respected are to be excluded, then so be it.

 

Tom and Stephen, we are with you all the way.

 

regards,

 

Will Reynolds