I just think it's hilariously ironic that ADX no longer allows comments, they who kept bashing Avsim for censoring and moderating discussions are now themselves allowing no discussion at all.

Regards,

Ró.

The irony was not lost on me either.

It's typically the few 'idiots', which ruin it for everyone else...

 

Exactly.  Really these "cretins" also express this "stone-head" symptom everywhere else. I believe the increasing callousness is a result of persons in media and, public figures who lack any concept of decency, common courtesy, even self awareness constantly spewing sewage.

Maybe we are being over run by some who are "functionaly insentient"?

 

 

I just think it's hilariously ironic that ADX no longer allows comments, they who kept bashing Avsim for censoring and moderating discussions are now themselves allowing no discussion at all.

 

Very true. It's also been mentioned that John Venema's post on ADX is exactly the sort of thing he wouldn't allow on his own forum and would result in a ban.

 

However, forum or website wars are not the point here. The point is why do people behave in such a way - have a read of some of the comments on the links I posted and you'll see the attacks on John Venema were way, way over the line, as was the the statement supporting piracy of Orbx products.

 

How long can this hobby expect to survive when stuff like this is becoming an almost every day occurrence?

 

 

we have to use common since

 

Which can differ from person to person, you may consider religion best avoided, it's simply common sense not to talk about it.  I consider it fine to discuss, in the context of free speech.  

My country / government, would dearly love it if we didn't talk about race, immigration, religion, politics, freedom of information, war, ad-nauseum.  If you don't believe me, a lady was arrested in my 'free' country for reading a list that stated the polices of David Cameron had effectively killed several people, he is currently busy cutting every social service we have, while still finding lot's of money to bomb people.

On a private forum like Avsim, the moderators are free to enforce any policy they wish, but i wouldn't want that extending to the entire Internet or public speech.

 

Speech that i disagree with, hate speech in all it's forms, that's exactly the speech that needs protecting.  Nobody needs protection from hearing that they are great and everything is well.

 

 

 

I'll turn this around and say if I can control myself why can't you?

In no way are you turning this around, again it's all relative, what you may consider justifiable control, i may consider an affront to my rights to free speech.  What you are effectively saying is that YOU hold a moral mandate on what is right and wrong, should i disagree with you, I am the one who is out-of-control.

Which can differ from person to person, you may consider religion best avoided, it's simply common sense not to talk about it.  I consider it fine to discuss, in the context of free speech.  

My country / government, would dearly love it if we didn't talk about race, immigration, religion, politics, freedom of information, war, ad-nauseum.  If you don't believe me, a lady was arrested in my 'free' country for reading a list that stated the polices of David Cameron had effectively killed several people, he is currently busy cutting every social service we have, while still finding lot's of money to bomb people.

On a private forum like Avsim, the moderators are free to enforce any policy they wish, but i wouldn't want that extending to the entire Internet or public speech.

 

Speech that i disagree with, hate speech in all it's forms, that's exactly the speech that needs protecting.  Nobody needs protection from hearing that they are great and everything is well.

 

 

 

In no way are you turning this around, again it's all relative, what you may consider justifiable control, i may consider an affront to my rights to free speech.  What you are effectively saying is that YOU hold a moral mandate on what is right and wrong, should i disagree with you, I am the one who is out-of-control.

 

Hence we're doomed to live in a world of confusion. There's no longer a code of ethics or standard by which everyone can go by... This is why Tom set's the standard here in the forums which is a must these days more so than it was just a few years ago...

 

 

Hence we're doomed to live in a world of confusion. There's no longer a code of ethics or standard by which everyone can go by...

 

Respectfully i disagree, the way it's going, we are almost certainly heading towards a more authoritarian outlook, both from governments and much more effectively from people self censoring comments and speech.

Given anonymity, some people will act with the lowest level of character that they posess. Others will act as they always do. This generall boils down to

- They are jerks in real life.

- They wish they could be a jerk in real life.

 

Responsibility is a funny thing, some people need others watching to act in a decent manner.

I think the thing about the internet is that its faceless and it allows people to do things that they would never  dream of in a face to face situation.It's a wonderful invention but like most things people can use it to be downright nasty or go on a power trip and not respect other peoples opinions. People can put in a lot of time and effort developing products and then get shot down in flames, There is nothing wrong with constructive critism, note the word "constructive".

 

Youtube is just as bad, too much boasting and trying to pull the wool over your eyes. How many FSX videos are not "touched up" for example?. A very sad situation.

 

 

Regarding people being 'hyper-sensitive' this comic sums up my feelings on the matter better than I could: http://xkcd.com/1216/

 

Wheaton's law also applies.

I just think it's hilariously ironic that ADX no longer allows comments, they who kept bashing Avsim for censoring and moderating discussions are now themselves allowing no discussion at all. Just goes to show that the approach taken by Avsim, while maybe not correct 100% of the time, no system is, is the only way to do things, and they learnt the hard way. Perhaps now all those childish comments that kept berating Avsim for it's moderating stance will now learn that just because you aren't talking with someone face to face doesn't give you the right to insult them or criticise them without proper justification.

 

Regards,

Ró.

 

Thank you Ro. I am glad someone recognizes this point. We have been around for going on 18 years. We have grown in popularity every year. We must be doing something right, and you are absolutely right; we have learned a lot of lessons along the way.

Anonymous people feel they can say whatever they want.

 

When I'm in a topic I try to treat it as if I have guests in my home or vice versa. If I do not act like this in real life I usually will not act that way in a forum. It's just how I am. That said, that's why i have such an aversion to politics, race, and some other controversial topics. It's fine if you know everyone in the room with you, but there are some things you just don't talk about in "mixed company". Just plain ole good etiquette by my thinking.

 

There was a time I frequented the WoW forums, the Something Awful forums, and even 4chan. Then (and maybe now, still) it was a compliment if you could really get in a good low brow comments against a person or group. I held my own in those days and I still can. BUT... looking back on it now, I was very childish. These days I frequent the AVSIM forums the most. When I see threads about politics (the "Someone Explain This Picture to Me" thread comes to mind or Dillon's comments regarding the Trayvon Martin case (Thug? lol)) I get the urge to go back to those days. However, AVSIM isn't the place for surly, childish outbursts. One of the best things I could say to people on subjective threads is, "if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything". I've been repeating that mantra a lot lately in the AVSIM forums.

 

My personal thought is that we should not discuss polarizing, non-FSX topics here. Those topics create trolls. If AVSIM allows it, then I just won't comment on those topics.

 

Some people HAVE to be trolls when they post anonymously...even on AVSIM from time to time. If there were more accountability out there (for the people posting harsh comments) in the WWW space, then maybe we could reduce incidents like the suicide cases and stop the troll brigade.

 

Just my two cents.

Interesting timing on this topic. The topic is exactly the reason that we have opened up the Wall of Shame. See the link on the right side panel in the forum index page.

Some amazing debate and discussion here.   I've especially enjoyed Dillon and WotonUK's debate and sincerely respect both sides of the discussion.

 

I have no philosophy to offer, other than that I think that our world operates at every level on a 'cyclical' basis... everything is a pendumulm swinging from one side to the other....

 

Left wing to right wing (and vice versa)

Central planning to free market (and vice versa)

Religious led state to Secular state (and back again)....

Political correctness to free speech and libertarianism

Free state to authoritarian state

etc etc

 

In any event, wherever the pendulum is, I just try to apply my inner values (wherever they come from) and apply as much compassion, respect and honesty as I can.

 

I guess perhaps we're all a little unhinged and subject to the human condition, questioning our purpose, our worth, whether we're really loved :lol: etc....   We all carry some anger and resentment about things in the world, or in our lives and then when you get the formula that LowFlyer mentioned;  anonymity > audience > poor behaviour ... you get the problems.    Perhaps the internet is how some people are sub-consciusly 'letting off steam'.

 

By jove, this is a deep one! ...... Now, about that 777.   :wink:

This is exactly what it's about, in my opinion.

 

I guess perhaps we're all a little unhinged and subject to the human condition, questioning our purpose, our worth, whether we're really loved :lol: etc....   We all carry some anger and resentment about things in the world, or in our lives and then when you get the above formual;  anonymity > audience > poor behaviour ... you get the problems.    Perhaps the internet is how some people are sub-consciusly 'letting off steam'.

That is pretty much what it boils down to. Some people just can't see a human being on the other side of the user name. Which speaks to their own character IMO.

I know we've all heard this a million times.... Just don't feed the trolls no matter how rude they are.  I've seen places where these trolls are completely ignored while the civilized members have a peaceful and informative discussion.  As a result, it makes the troll look foolish when everyone ignores their rude behavior, name calling, etc.

 

It's so annoying to see these keyboard warriors trolling all over the net.  Just browsing youtube comments, one can see how so many people have absolutely nothing better to do.

 

What's this world coming to?  I hope the cycle Dave speak of will end soon so we can start the sane cycle.  But I'm not holding my breath :( .