Angle of Attack now charging subscription fees to download videos

[Brenchen 51]

There is one thing I'm quite certain on however, is if you are not happy with their service, tell them you want a refund.  From hearing other people's stories, they usually don't give you any hassells and refund you.

 

I think this would be more appropriate (depends where on your point of view), as this gives them feedback.  And if they get enough of them, like any good companies would do ~~ reflect and resolve.  If you go through paypal, they may not know why they need to refund.

 

Products that AOA produce are quite thorough and quality.  Therefore the hope is for them to continue on the good work, though fix up where they went wrong, no?

[OmniAtlas 93]

i dont understand why is there a fuss over it..why werent people downloading it as and when the videos were published..

Some of the videos were not available to download.

 

I also review very slowly, about one video every 1-2 months. I like to take my time.

[Dirk98 354]

I think the reason for their decision (long long emails and blog updates) was technical cost that was involved.  

 

+1

 

And I wouldn't like to see AoA going belly up.

 

Dirk.

[TheDanger 182]

I wouldn't ask for a refund. I paid, downloaded all the videos up til around a month ago and still gave then. I got my money's worth

[MarkW 1,493]

Like many others already said, this might not have been a very vise business decision... I downloaded all videos earlier today because who knows for how long AoA will be up and running as a company and if/when they are not how would I then get access to the product I paid for... I was able to download all videos but these:   GroundWork: - Secondary flight controls   FlightWork: - 737 Pre-FlightWork PMDG Options - 737 Pre-FlightWork FSUIPC and Controls - 737 Pre-FlightWork TrackIR and EZCA   LineWork: - 737NGX Flows- Bleeds Off Takeoff - 737NGX LineWork Flight 3 - 737NGX LineWork Flight 4 - 737NGX LineWork Flight 5 - 737NGX LineWork Flight 6

 

Thankfully I have been downloading the HD videos all along so I did not have that many left to go.   After some furious downloading over the past few days I have now successfully downloaded everything.  WebMaximus, you should try again, the links to the videos above now work and I was able to download these.

 

As for the paying again.  Just click the PayPal button and the AOA checkout will show $0.00 and unlock the download.  It never actually goes over to Paypal.

 

I too am done with AOA.  While there is good content there the time to deliver on the 737 was crazy at 2 years and now with people like Froogle and others offering free online tutorials plus the indepth PMDG tutorial on the way for the 777 there is just no need for this program anymore....I am more than happy to learn the old way, which was reading manuals & forums and now watching others on YouTube.

[tonywob 4,769]

Just curious...for all this money they're charging, do any of their products include input from actual pilots of the aircraft they feature?

 

Chris is/was a real world IFR pilot in a Bonanza, which is why I loved the AviatorPro series, until he decided to leave, and it ended up in a mess, with different presenters periodically adding new stuff and then disappearing.

 

I also bought the 737 package, watched it once, and haven't been back since, so the non-availability of a download doesn't bother me at all. Maybe because by the time it was out, I had already read the manuals, and got bored of the 737, and just lost interest. I'm not interested at all in the 777, either their videos, or the actual plane from PMDG, so also won't be purchasing that. But if Chris does another series, or continues AviatorPro, I'll sign up again

[High Plains Flyer 35]

You guys may want to reconsider talking about the "free streaming downloads", as if you are downloading copyright content that is highly illegal.

No, it isn't. It's fair use. Making archival copies has always been considered tone fair use.

 

Plus people have already paid for the right to download these videos.

 

Look, the downloads were offered as an alternative to offering them on DVDs. DVDs really are not expensive, especially when purchased in bulk. However, Chris Palmer thought he could make more money by allowing people to download the videos rather than burning DVDs.

 

Now he's decided there is more money in a subscription model. Fine. But that does not mean that he can sell the videos, then after he sells them, turn around and charge a subscription fee to the people who just purchased them.

 

It really takes a lot of chutzpah for someone to get on his high horse and start pontificating about copyright law in the face of such fraud. The people who PAID for the right to download the videos are not the bad guys here, The crooks at Angle of Attack who have just defrauded a buch of hobbyists are,

.

[WebMaximus 372]

 

 

Thankfully I have been downloading the HD videos all along so I did not have that many left to go. After some furious downloading over the past few days I have now successfully downloaded everything. WebMaximus, you should try again, the links to the videos above now work and I was able to download these.

 

Thanks, after some communication with Chris from AoA I have now been able to download all content.

[greengriffon 51]

The reason some of us didn't have all of the HD videos downloaded already is because we gave up a long time ago.

 

From the time the PMDG 737 launched, it was something like 11 months before they got out the first video that even began to tell you how to start the thing up. While people were clamoring for content that teaches them to fly their new toy, these guys were spending all their time on videos about the 737's fire extinguisher system, which isn't even modeled in the sim. Great background material maybe for AFTER you teach people what they really wanted and paid for. I'm pretty sure it was a year and change before you finally got to see your first intro flight. It was ridiculous. I don't know about you guys, but when a new PMDG aircraft comes out, the last thing I want to do is have it gathering dust in my virtual hangar for an entire year before I learn how to fly it.

 

So like many people, I decided to learn the 737 from the many excellent, free tutorials that began popping up on Youtube almost immediately after launch, some from real NGX pilots. Then I would log in every 6 months and see if there was anything new to download, usually shake my head in dismay, then move on. Fast forward 2 years, and I'm not even sure the 737 training is complete yet. I only stopped in after this alarming new policy change to grab the last of the videos I didn't have so I can leave that site and never come back.

 

Don't get me wrong, what the guys under Chris actually did do was commendable work, and I'm sure they did their best under the circumstances, but the $80 I spent on that training was literally the only flightsim purchase I've ever regretted. I'll never again buy a product "on faith" that isn't developed yet.

 

Makes me wonder what the 777 training customers are in for.

 

 

i dont understand why is there a fuss over it..why werent people downloading it as and when the videos were published..

Some of their links have been broken for months and no one bothered to fix them until now, only after people have been screaming in their forums about the new policy deadline for grabbing them.

[Parping Couplet 117]

Oh dear, back again on this one when I said I wouldn't be, but I think what comes out of this is that it's quite possible to learn how to fly a tubeliner, or most any other type, for free.

 

To be honest, once you've mastered the NGX, the transition to the 777 is really straightforward. I'd go as far as to say it's a measurably easier plane to fly than the 737. Certainly not as slippery on the descent.

 

I can understand the need for in-depth systems training, but to be quite honest, I'd rather be hand flying my Twin Otter Extended, or whatever, than spending time on that "extra" stuff. I suspect I'm not alone among hobbyist simmers, as opposed to those of us using FSX/P3D as a springboard to a flying career.

 

I'd also endorse the view that full training needs to be ready on Day One of product release, otherwise what's the point? You'll just learn it yourself while u wait.

[Stephan83 4]

Stick by youtube saved money live better.

[OmniAtlas 93]

I'm personally asking Chris to extend my download period -- there is just no way I can download all the content in one week.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Okay I've never bought anything from AoA (Or, now, plan to...) but I do have something to add.

It's not illegal, we purchased the content in the first place. The problem is, we suddenly won't have access to local downloads of the lessons after one week, a feature we all paid for in the first place, unless we now ante up an additional subscription fee. Like $80 wasn't enough.

 

This is of course after most of us have been waiting...what...since sometime in 2011 for him to finish the 737 training we paid for?

 

That guy should be giving us free stuff for our patience, not taking away things we in fact paid for.

 

 

You guys may want to reconsider talking about the "free streaming downloads", as if you are downloading copyright content that is highly illegal.

 

 

Not knowing what subscription you purchased or what the Terms of Service use said in them at that time, it doesn't matter.  I'm also sure the Terms of Service said that the company can change policies at any point in time that they like.  Either way, it is still illegal.  Just because you feel you are entitled to something doesn't make it legal.  You are still getting the product you paid for - just not able to download them.

 

 

If you're through playing the internet police, I'll repeat myself - we purchased the content. We have been allowed to download the lessons for the last 2 years. Now we have 7 days to download everything before they pull the plug and make you pay a subscription fee. Hence, at this moment, we can do whatever we like to obtain those videos. That includes either a straight download, a browser plugin, or whatever our little hearts desire. Clear? Deciding after the fact that you don't want to honor what you sold to people, especially for a fairly hefty fee, is bad business.

 

Regardless of your interpretation, we are entitled to precisely what we paid for.

 

 

Why? The content was advertised as part of a package for which I have a receipt. Are you implying stealing?

Cash on the barrel head with in this case, a gentleman's word to deliver. Where is the breach?

I've always saved receipts and emails in ******form to my computer, ask me for the pages on the day I bought it, and I can give it to you, all the way thru' the transaction process.

 

 

I think the reason for their decision (long long emails and blog updates) was technical cost that was involved.  Copyright wise customers should have already legally purchased the license for the media.  And AOA is charging (partially) because they are spending more than they were expected to spend on downloads, therefore if you can find another way of providing free download service (that they couldn't provide), then I don't see what's so illegal about doing it that way...

 

I don't agree with the charge on existing products, new products like some of you already mentioned is fine to be streaming only.  But at the time of purchase, we have "agreed" and legally OWN all the conditions upon the time of purchase.  So at the time of purchase, one of the terms we agreed to was the ability to download the video at any time we wish.  Although it doesn't bother me practically to stream the videos, but just the principle of this is a bit.....

So, by you guys' logic, since I pay for Netflix I have a right to download via a "plugin" all the movies that I stream online?

[ajpongress 467]

When you signed up for Netflix, did your user agreement state you could?

I don't own any AOA products but it sounds like they bought under the assumption they would have download access as part of their purchase.

If that's the case, then to charge again just to access the SAME content is fraud.

 

But if the agreement/EULA/whatever AOA uses didnt specify a guarantee to always have access via download then they have the right, even if its immoral, to charge again for a different method of content delivery.

[CoolP 283]

Am I stupid if I wonder if Chris or somebody from AoA could issue an official statement to sort of calm the waters? Wouldn't that help both sides? At least on gaining an insight on how things are, how they've developed and so on. :mellow: