This weekend I still have to find some time also to check another product that just one among you mentioned - "ProFlight  Emulator".

 

Reading from their support page I assume it requires an old fs2000 ATC program installed to run - the original proflight 2000 ?

No you don't need to do a separate install. PF2000 is the core engine of PFE. That said PFE enhances the core engine's functionality. Which is its point obviously. The disadvantage of having PF200 as the core is that it cannot be changed so a few things show through within PFE. For example some ATC centres still have old names or none at all.  Another disadvantage is the steep learning curve. Once learnt it is extremely simple and uncomplicated to use. The voices are the best and you are rarely chastised which means one can get on and enjoy the flight. As with all the other ATC programmes the actual FPL may/will have to be tweaked a bit.

Thx vololiberista!

Hi JC, if you like realistic AI, schedules, etc, then Vox is not for you. I tried the demo, and was quite disappointed.

Airlines pop up in places that they don't fly too like Qantas regional flights flying over Africa. So you need to consider that.

 

Although, it doesn't fly real schedules as in  departure time and arrival time, it will create flights from bgls or ut2 schedules. So, in latest versions, you won't see airlines where they are not supposed to be as in your Qantas regional example.

 

About PFE,

It can be the most immersive of all ATC add ons, especially if you are flying in North America or Western Europe. You could be flying out of JFK and hear the clearance controller speaking in American accent to an Air france pilot who is speaking in French accent, Lufthansa pilot in German accent and so on. There are in total 99 voices. 

 

American( Southern, Northwestern and so on)

Canadian(English and French Canadian)

South American 

Spanish

British

Irish

Australian

Arabic

Indian

Asian

French

German

Nordic

Hungarian

Italian

African

Dutch

Greek

We're lucky to have so many choices, because no canned ATC program is ever going to be truly realistic.  It's all a compromise.  If you want maximum realism in terms of interaction with ATC you need to fly online. But online has major and well-known drawbacks too that make it unrealistic except in rather narrow circumstances.

 

I haven't tried every option out there.  I'll talk about the ones I have tried.

 

First, the FSX default.  This can be quite useable, depending on your requirements and expectations.  It's not really appropriate or complete when it comes to big iron flying into big airports.  (And that's exactly where online shines.  See below.)  But if you fly GA or to smaller and even medium airports it's useable.  No, it doesn't support SIDs and STARs.  But it's not too well known that you don't have to use their vectors to final if you don't want to be forced into that pattern.  You can decline vectors and select one of the other procedures and fly that.  That way you are in control and not flung out into the wilderness in your C150 as if you were flying an A330!   Yes, it doesn't actually control much of anything and in heavy traffic situations it can be very frustrating to see constant go-arounds and the ultra-conservative approach to takeoffs where you or the airplanes in front of you wait for clearance seemingly anytime an approaching aircraft is within 10 miles of the runway!  There are only 8 voices but they are good.  But you really, really need to use EditVoicePack to speed them up!  Oh, they are soooo slooowww inn sppeeaaakkkinng.

 

About online.  I am not an expert.  I have tried it several times.  As far as I know there are two main options - VATSIM or PilotEdge.  PilotEdge is well spoken of but it only covers southern California as far as I know.   I believe it requires a paid subscription.  I have not done this.  I've tried VATSIM on occasion and may do it again soon.  But this is a matter of taste and your flying style in FS.  If you fly big iron into big airports it's a viable and realistic option some of the time.  VATSIM depends on volunteers and sometimes the airports are well staffed and sometimes not.  My style is smaller and/or older aircraft in out-of-the-way places like Alaska or my home area of the mid-Atlantic states of the US.  There are almost never any volunteer controllers where I want to fly.  And the times I have used VATSIM the controllers have been nice to me but I get the impression that if you aren't flying big, fast jets you're not in the mainstream and tend to get ignored or forgotten about.

 

I had a go at PFE and VoxATC.  I never really understood PFE although it's well spoken of.  I might try it again, but after some struggle to understand it, I put it aside.  VoXATC has lots of potential - but voice recognition doesn't like my voice.  I struggled for weeks with MCE, trying to use it.  The constant "say again" and "let's start over" and "I didn't get that" made me want to throttle the FO (yes I did the training, twice and three times actually.)    Same with VOX.  The frustration level was just too great for me to enjoy it.  Besides, speaking isn't a priority for me.  I have no problem pressing number keys to respond to ATC.

The one I stick with is RC4.  It too has its drawbacks.  The most annoying for me is the lack of ground operations.  I would love for it to actually track me when I fly a SID or STAR.  It allows me to do it, but as far as it's concerned it's just another set of waypoints, and it will inevitably hand me over to approach at 40 miles and vector me (unless I ask for another procedure.)  I also wish it wasn't designed to do a single flight and shutdown.  I often fly multi-leg and I have to restart the program between legs.  But I'm used to that now.  It's just an annoyance.  And it's sad that development has ended.  Another company would do well to try and match the feature set of this product and expand on it.

 

That said, RC4 has many advantages that for me and my style make it the best solution I've tried.  There are quite a few misconceptions out there about it.  I'll try and address the

most common of them.

 

The voices are robotic.  They might sound that way if you try and play them slowly.  That increases the gap between words.  You can adjust the speed and I put it at maximum.  They sound pretty much like normal ATC to me then.  And they sound like real people not voice actors.  To me that's a plus.  Not every ATC guy or gal in real life sounds like a DJ on an easy listening station.  I have and you can greatly enhance the realism further by adding the "meatwater pack" that adds sound background static that makes the voices sound like a radio transmission.  These voices aren't smooth like the MS ATC voices, but they sound real enough to me.

 

It always does the same things.  Anyone who says this hasn't made many flights.  For a canned product, RC4 has quite a few variations.  Far more than the default ATC, which always reacts in a predictably same way to every situation.  That's my favorite feature of this product, actually, right up there with the authentic language and procedures.  You can request any runway for takeoff or landing...but sometimes you'll be denied.  You can request a level change in flight ... but you aren't guaranteed to get it.  You can be placed in holding patterns.  Just last night I was placed in a hold at 9,000 feet at a fix 40 miles south on KDCA due to traffic saturation.  This is just as realistic, and just as annoying, as in real life.  And you don't know what's going to happen.  Often you are stepped down realistically.  Last night I was released early. RC4 has other surprises.  You really can't be sure.  Sometimes the controllers are strict about speed on approach, sometimes not. 

 

It doesn't control the AI.  It doesn't take control of all of it.  But it most definitely intervenes to help get it out of your way, or try and prevent it from getting in your way.  The most frustrating and unrealistic thing in the default ATC is they do nothing about multiple aircraft on final to the same runway!  I have been on final in a DC-3 and had a 737 race right under me or over me!  RC4 will not let that happen.  Any AI aircraft on final to your runway when you are on final will be ushered out of the way.   No AI aircraft will be allowed onto your runway when you are approaching it.  And best of all:  RC4 will get you outta there by clearing you for takeoff with tight (but realistic) margins concerning AI aircraft on final.  No more waiting for 10 minutes while a slow little puddle jumper makes a 10-mile final when ATC could have gotten 3 or 4 jets out in the time, safely.   (Of course this only applies if you are #1 for takeoff. It won't help when an AI airplane under MSATC control is setting there waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

 

The controllers are nasty.  Yes, they will reprimand you.  This is in about three levels.  Your first screwup they will be gentle and just remind you.  The second (in the same flight) and they get a little firmer.  Do it again and they will start asking if you "need special assistance" in an annoyed tone of voice.   In my opinion, they should.   This is realistic.  There is lots of pressure to not screw up clearances in real flying.  You could die and kill other people.    Being able to sloppily bust altitudes and stumble all over the sky under ATC control during approach -- or anytime - is absolutely not realistic.

 

I have not tried ProATC.  My understanding is it got off to a shaky start but is improving and evolving.  I may give it a whirl in the future.

 

That's my perspective.

 

None are perfect and never will be unless MS or LM or DTG hires a gigantic staff of human controllers to serve us worldwide.  Yeah.  Wait for that one.

 

Dutch

You should have another look at PFE Dutch. People are confused by its PF2000 element. However, in practice one uses that only to compile a FPL. The first time one uses it its a good idea to set some parameters. But other than that most can be set within PFE. The voices are far and away the best and non robotic at any speed!

 

ProATC has a big problem in that it is neither FAA or ICAO compliant. So for a real pilot using the sim it's useless. It doesn't even use the phonetic alphabet! I would rate it worse than the default ATC even!!

 

VATSIM as you say is great if there are controllers where you want to fly. But not so great if you are doing an international flight! That's where PFE scores hands down. Add your SID and STAR and you're away! Also it is current, had a recent update and works with FS9 FSX*2 and P3D. RC4 hasn't been updated for a very very long time and it seems unlikely to ever happen.

Nice write up Dutch! I fly RC but still enjoyed reading your write up.

 

Another fun thing RC does is at uncontrolled fields you call FSS on a phone. He then puts you on hold while he gets clearance. You hear the dialing and ringing. Very nice touch.

Same with call WX at an uncontrolled field. Dial them up and wake the guy up to give you the report.

 

Lots of things you can tell were made by guys in the business. Very professional.

 

RC can get annoying at times. But most of the time it is something input wrong on my side. Like the planner does not match or something - and off you go into oblivion using up precious fuel.

Also some config items I had to find and install before it all worked right. But not too hard.

Thx Dutch!!!

 

Great reading!

I am up for trying PFE2000 again, depending on the answers to this checklist.  If I'm considering a change I need to be sure I don't go backwards in a vital area.

 

Must haves:

 

* Authentic procedures and phraseology.

* Support for all IFR procedures not just vectors to final.

* Flight monitoring not allowing violations (altitude busts, off course)

* Ability to request runways and flight levels.

* Will at the very least keep AI out of the way on final.

* A degree of unpredictability with multiple possibilities.

* Ability to specify arrival gate.

 

Want to haves:

 

* Ground taxi control.

* Ability to be placed in realistic holds.

* Support for SID/STAR.

* Support for VFR as well as IFR

* Multi-leg flight capability.

* A high degree of unpredictability.

 

There might be more but these are the basics.  I really wouldn't consider moving to anything that fails one of the must-have tests.

 

Dutch

Dutch,

 

good checklist - I'll look fwd for any answers too!

As far as I'm aware PFE does everything on both checklists. When you say multi leg I presume you mean a single FPL for multiple destinations. ie stopovers. Of that I'm not certain because I don't do that. Check that out on their forum. http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewforum.php?f=4

 

If you go here and start from 17:00 (to avoid all the pre-flight checks) you get a good impression of PFE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94xXG5EC6d0 Bear in mind that about 90% of what you see and hear - with the exception of PFE - has been changed since that video was uploaded.

Hi Dutch,

 

First, I want to thank you for FSCapatain. I bought four years ago and I am still getting updates and new features without paying for them. 

 

 

I am up for trying PFE2000 again, depending on the answers to this checklist.  If I'm considering a change I need to be sure I don't go backwards in a vital area.

 

Must haves:

 

* Authentic procedures and phraseology.   

I have no idea as I am not a RW pilot.

* Support for all IFR procedures not just vectors to final.

Yes, the same way RC does.

* Flight monitoring not allowing violations (altitude busts, off course)

Yes, and it will tell you the airway name if you are off course.

* Ability to request runways and flight levels.

Yes and yes.

* Will at the very least keep AI out of the way on final.

Yes.

* A degree of unpredictability with multiple possibilities.

Not really sure what you mean, but it will give you different step climbs each flight and sometimes it will change runways on approach. It will give you speed restrictions on approach and sometimes gives climbs without speed restrictions below 10k(which ###### Travis off). There is a also a probability of the controller making a mistake and correcting it(can be set through .CFG)  and SAY AGAIN.  

* Ability to specify arrival gate.

​Yes, you could do that before the flight and it will guide you to it by voice or a separate gauge. So, FsCaptain assigns a gate and you could select it through PFE. 

 

Want to haves:

 

* Ground taxi control.

If by that you mean guidance, then yes.

* Ability to be placed in realistic holds.

There is a hold probability percentage, but I don't know if it is realistic or not.

* Support for SID/STAR.

The same way RC does but you can add names and PFE will pronounce them phonetically.  

* Support for VFR as well as IFR

Yes, but I have never used it VFR.

* Multi-leg flight capability.

No.

* A high degree of unpredictability.

 

There might be more but these are the basics.  I really wouldn't consider moving to anything that fails one of the must-have tests.

 

Dutch

 

 

 

Cheers

well right now im trying to complete a flight with vox i think its getting the error because of my traffic pro x when i was running with the default ai it was fine i like vox features but is very hard program to work with it dont work well with other addons right now im using radar contact 4 the most reliable atc i found and just load a flight plan and boom your there only thing i dont likew about rc there is no ground support like vox has but oh well cant have everything but on the air is solid.

Dutch:

 

I've been using RC for years and have never noticed a way to increase the speed of the voices.  Can this be done without meatwaters voices and, if so, how?

Dutch:

 

I've been using RC for years and have never noticed a way to increase the speed of the voices.  Can this be done without meatwaters voices and, if so, how?

 

On the RC voices page just move the slider under each voice, full left is fastest

Hi Folks,

 

I haven't read all the posts - but - if you use RC4 be sure to get the "meatwater" (free/FL) mods as I think they really improved things a bit...

 

Another neat trick - during oceanic travels - don't you lose coms with weird radio noises when out of range ??? I was chuckling to myself the first time I experienced that feature...

 

P3D migration in progress for me - does RC4 work in P3Dv3 ?

 

While I've been out of touch for a while - are any of the ATC programs working towards true traffic separation with steers ?

 

I just watched a video on Pilot2ATC 2.0 and it looks promising...

 

Regards,
Scott