PMDG products cost almost double though.... well quadruple if you factor in buying FSX and P3D products both separately.  You've got me with Realair (my favorite) though.

Problem is I haven't tested in FSX yet... only P3D.  I'll check out the FSX version someday hehe.  And so far I completed a flight in P3D: KSFO - KLAX online on Pilot Edge, using Orbx NCA, Orbx MRY (overflew at FL330), FB SFO, FSDT KLAX with no OOM. 

I'm talking about P3d I keep getting an OOM every time I take off out of Seattle I get to around 25,000 then boom oom close to jefferson county. Then I flew to KSFF tonight an came close to an OOM on Final.

Many thanks, David. Also for your startup tutorial. Doesn't look too bad when it comes to the different lights and levels. I also like that they've included the ground illumination effects for the strobes and things. Nice lights!

 

Thumbs up to all the current reviewers by the way. I guess the thread shows that there's some serious interest concerning biz jets in place, so we surely cannot blame Carenado's market research for delivering just that. B)

 

Anyone else looking for a X-Plane release of those? I think the FMC generation of theirs has yet to arrive over there.

Just a question, do you use any weather injection addon or default fsx weather? I have not purchased the Hawker as I'm quite worried by the feedback until now so I cannot check that but I know that with some proven bug free addons, the weather injection can be responsible for very low climb rate and speed at high altitude specially when the temperature is way higher as it should be.

Yeah I use ASN. The temperature was something like ISA +18. But I fly in those conditions all the time and this is the first time that this happens to me.

I'm talking about P3d I keep getting an OOM every time I take off out of Seattle I get to around 25,000 then boom oom close to jefferson county. Then I flew to KSFF tonight an came close to an OOM on Final.

 

Hmmm I haven't seen that but I'll try that scenario at some point...  I will say I get OOM's with Orbx areas a lot faster than default or addons in general.

Hmmm I haven't seen that but I'll try that scenario at some point... I will say I get OOM's with Orbx areas a lot faster than default or addons in general.

OOMs are almost enough to make me switch to X-Plane....But let me highlight the almost part Haha

No need to switch just fly them all...

 

When I get bored of MS products I just fly XP10 for a while.

 

Try their demo...  especially nice a night.

There is no "hating" going on, just very unsatisfied customers.  You can't pay $50 for a product and not have it deliver as plannned.  This thing took forever and had a lot of people excited for the release, only to see that they did NOT deliver a quality product from head to toe.  It is a beautiful product and modeled very well, however I am concerned because I addressed certain things with Carenado about the documentation and some of the other issues and they don't see a problem with it.  I agree with what others posted in here that it is not good that they don't have thier own forum, and I am not sure they are even looking at this one, which will show how many unsatisfied devoted customers there are.  I hope to goodness that they fix ALL the problems we are complaining about, and frankly I wish they would somehow allow a integration with GTN 750 as this at least shows a good map of the area and path you are flying.  I guess the time starts ticking away for this SP release...................... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

There is no "hating" going on, just very unsatisfied customers.  You can't pay $50 for a product and not have it deliver as plannned.  This thing took forever and had a lot of people excited for the release, only to see that they did NOT deliver a quality product from head to toe.  It is a beautiful product and modeled very well, however I am concerned because I addressed certain things with Carenado about the documentation and some of the other issues and they don't see a problem with it.  I agree with what others posted in here that it is not good that they don't have thier own forum, and I am not sure they are even looking at this one, which will show how many unsatisfied devoted customers there are.  I hope to goodness that they fix ALL the problems we are complaining about, and frankly I wish they would somehow allow a integration with GTN 750 as this at least shows a good map of the area and path you are flying.  I guess the time starts ticking away for this SP release...................... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As I said in my other posts people were already trash talking the product and Carenado within hours of a release when they hadn't even purchased the product. Based on the reviews I have seen so far I would not purchase the Hawker and if I had been one of the people who did pay for it expecting something much nicer I would be pretty upset too. However, this is not the case with most of the people on here. They most likely got burned when they bought the Phenom or the Citation which were pretty awful (I was one of those people) and now they are upset. I find it strange that everyone here complains about Carenado's reputation of building eye candy aircraft with no systems functionality but then complains when Carenado doesn't "deliver". Carenado is delivering what they have always been delivering, nothing has changed and I would have thought everyone here would have learned that by now.

^^^  that's not true - as I read it, the disatisfaction is not about "Carenado delivering eye candy without complex systems".   The disatisfaction is about serious bugs in the features that they do deliver.

 

No-one expects Carenado to deliver PMDG-like systems functionality;  but I guess they expect the autopilot to work as advertised, and that the FDE would broadly represent the aircraft being modelled.

^^^ that's not true - as I read it, the disatisfaction is not about "Carenado delivering eye candy without complex systems". The disatisfaction is about serious bugs in the features that they do deliver.

 

No-one expects Carenado to deliver PMDG-like systems functionality; but I guess they expect the autopilot to work as advertised, and that the FDE would broadly represent the aircraft being modelled.

This is it for me.

 

And to see continued improvement with each release. If they get FLC mode correct in the PC12 they ought to be learning from that for every plane after with a similar system.

I don't understand why there is ANY ridicule against users criticizing this release.

 

A company, Carenado, is charging $50 with the buyer's expectation it is a finished and polished product.

The reality is it's not finished, it's not polished, it's full of bugs, and it likely never went through any meaningful beta testing.

 

What people are ticked about is paying $50 to beta test their product for them when (and I'm guessing here) 99% of these paying customers would have happily tested the product for free pre-release and then would have happily forked over their $50 for something they knew worked.

 

Imo Carenado has now adopted the unethical practices of Captainsim, where you charge people full price for something that isn't ready to be sold yet.

They hang on to the money while they drip out service packs over several months (in Captainsim's case, years) that bring the product a little closer to completion after every pack, yet the product never actually gets finished.

 

I really hope the Hawker gets finished, and I feel bad for those that forked $50 for it and got something half done.

Hopefully more people condemn this type of business practice and says no to the next unfinished product with a full price tag.

Very well put, AJ.

I think that some folks should be reminded that even with all the (assumed) 'evil' business practices in place at Carenado, they do not charge extra (namely: twice) for running their products in either FSX or P3D.

 

And they never charged for just downloading your installer again while also offering a refund policy.

 

So once we are on, erm, 'upsetting' practices and how to treat them, we shouldn't forget about the pros and cons, therefore the whole picture. :smile: Avoiding confirmation bias.

I think that some folks should be reminded that even with all the (assumed) 'evil' business practices in place at Carenado, they do not charge extra (namely: twice) for running their products in either FSX or P3D.

 

And they never charged for just downloading your installer again while also offering a refund policy.

 

So once we are on, erm, 'upsetting' practices and how to treat them, we shouldn't forget about the pros and cons, therefore the whole picture. :smile: Avoiding confirmation bias.

true but they are charging $50 for a $20 product :rolleyes: It would be a bit cheeky if they double dipped as well..

Imo Carenado has now adopted the unethical practices of Captainsim, where you charge people full price for something that isn't ready to be sold yet.

They hang on to the money while they drip out service packs over several months (in Captainsim's case, years) that bring the product a little closer to completion after every pack, yet the product never actually gets finished.

 

 

 

This happens all the time with many other developers too, both within and outside the flight simulation segment. While it would be unfair to mention them, it is known to everyone that it is a very common practice. I hardly know one single software house that does not release a 1.1 version weeks or even days after the original release based on inputs of customers (mostly reports of bugs). The reasons are often more complex than many can figure out at first glance. Anyway, I can't see anything 'unethical' in this. Unprofessional? Possibly, or maybe, yes, but one should consider that Carenado has probably a different target than the skillest simmers here on AVSIM, who often have a solid background in real aviation and, as a result, higher than average expectations. The sim world is much bigger, though.

 

While I concur that Carenado models have wide margins for optimization in general, I maintain that this campaign 'boycott Carenado' has very little sense, under my personal view. For unsatisfied customers, there is a refund policy and, above all, no obligation to buy.